Politics, Politics, Politics

[MacNfries]

Right so whats wrong with a fair tax? 20 percent across the board or whatever the rate is.

A couple things right off the top ... you go to a flat tax, the government has to adjust spending or continue running up the deficit and national debt. So, the flat tax will only result in a Tax Shift ... moving it from income taxes to other forms of taxes that impact the poor more than the wealthiest Americans ... now tell me I'm wrong?

Second, you have a person making $20,000 a year, they're living in poverty ... barely able to provide a roof over their heads and feed themselves ... the impact of a tax (whether it is a cut or a shift) moves the income variances even further apart because the wealthiest income earners benefit the most.

 

[MacNfries]

Sorry guys ... gotta go to church today. ******* being baptized ... parental obligations ... later.

 

[Alanm]

A couple things right off the top ... you go to a flat tax, the government has to adjust spending or continue running up the deficit and national debt. So, the flat tax will only result in a Tax Shift ... moving it from income taxes to other forms of taxes that impact the poor more than the wealthiest Americans ... now tell me I'm wrong?

Second, you have a person making $20,000 a year, they're living in poverty ... barely able to provide a roof over their heads and feed themselves ... the impact of a tax (whether it is a cut or a shift) moves the income variances even further apart because the wealthiest income earners benefit the most.

Yes, the government has to adjust spending and that needs done anyway.

They wealthy are not benefitting any more with a flat tax. Its the same percentage. What your saying is that the person making 20 k a year needs every penny and cannot afford a 20 percent tax....you would prefer that the rich guy making 1 million pays a 50 percent tax and the poor pays a 5 percent tax.....i am saying that is unfair. Your trying to bring the two different incomes closer together by tax and thats not fair. Your penalyzing the person who was successful in life and thats wrong just as much as you think its wrong the poor guy should pay the same tax rate as the rich guy.

 

[subhub174014]

What your saying is that the person making 20 k a year needs every penny and cannot afford a 20 percent tax....you would prefer that the rich guy making 1 million pays a 50 percent tax and the poor pays a 5 percent tax.....i am saying that is unfair

to a point!... there is some truth there.... but the problem is... with the country needing the tax money.... and the corps... not paying it... the burden falls on those that can afford it least!.... the flat tax right now can not support the wars and etc that the country is in... and our infrs-astructure is falling apart (roads and bridegs and etc).... with the tax cuts to corps that they are getting we just don't have any money... and every republican that has come into office since Ike has cut those taxes and trump wants to cut them in half now... benefits him and those like him... just brings the burden right back to those that can not afford it and puts them on gov programs that we pay for!
It goes back to those corporate taxes.... look at wal mart... they pay very little to their employees... most employees on some kind of gov program... and yet we pay wal mart billions for hiring the poorer people .... we should take that money and instead of giving it to wal mart use the money to pay for the gov assistance those people are getting and probably have a lot left over!... hell wal mart has the best of both worlds that's why all the Walmart heirs are in the top 20 of wealthiest people... they pay nothing to their people and get money from the gov for hiring them!
and that is just one example!

 

[subhub174014]

you will like this one!

 

[subhub174014]

just think about it for a minute....... if you are making 20thou per year and paying a flat tax and barely surviving... it hurts!.... but if you were making 35-40thou per year....you can survive!
we are subsidizing the gov to pay these people min wage!... when most are drawing huge profits to begin with!

 

[subhub174014]

no one is saying tax the wealthy per-se.... it's pay more! and quit giving the tax breaks to people like Mcdonalds and wal mart!

I know torp will have an opinion on that one!

 

[TwoBiFour]

Again SubHub - LINK IT or you have NOTHING to stand on.
ME apologize to you?

 

[TwoBiFour]

Well, it shouldn't take anyone having to put the other on ignore; simply "agree that neither will respond to the other's posts OR make 3rd person remarks of the other to other posters" ... seems like a gentlemanly way to resolve the issue. That applies to me as well ... anyone on b2w doesn't want me responding to their posts or threads, all they need to do is simply let me know and agree to the terms above, and I'll most certainly comply.

We did have that agreement a while back - SubHub could not comply and had to start throwing his insults again. Shall I link his insults , since you and SH are unable to link any of mine that you claim I do so much? Frankly Mac, I find it hard to believe that you defend him. After your rants about people insulting (do you remember or should I link that too?) and you getting other members ban because they called you a name and constant insults - now you defend someone doing the exact same thing except it's from your side, so that makes it OK - afraid of being alone Mac?

 

[MacNfries]

They wealthy are not benefitting any more with a flat tax. Its the same percentage

What really insults me about your posts is you figure people just can't read. All you have to do is GOOGLE "How does the flat tax benefit the rich more", or "Does the flat tax benefit the rich more?" and you'll get at least 200+ links from articles people who know a hell of a lot more than YOU or ME who will explain it to you. You can believe them, or do as you normally ALWAYS DO and simply deny it. But the fact is, I'll produce 10X the articles than you which prove your fantasy world wrong.

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-a-flat-tax-a-good-idea/flat-tax-will-benefit-only-the-rich
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/i...t-tax-middle-class-pays-more-so-rich-pay-less
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-tax-plan_us_57daed61e4b08cb140945e40
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/020516/ted-cruzs-flat-tax-more-simple-or-unequal.asp

....Also what you forget is that the POOR do not have investment income & capital gains which are taxed differently. For the wealthiest, that's mostly ALL they have.

 

[TwoBiFour]

A couple things right off the top ... you go to a flat tax, the government has to adjust spending or continue running up the deficit and national debt. So, the flat tax will only result in a Tax Shift ... moving it from income taxes to other forms of taxes that impact the poor more than the wealthiest Americans ... now tell me I'm wrong?

Second, you have a person making $20,000 a year, they're living in poverty ... barely able to provide a roof over their heads and feed themselves ... the impact of a tax (whether it is a cut or a shift) moves the income variances even further apart because the wealthiest income earners benefit the most.

Anyone making less than 30K shouldn't be paying any tax to begin with, flat tax or no. And for the most part they don't. About the only amount you don't get back is SS and Medicaid tax, and some cases people more back than then paid in. I remember when we were young and wife and I would get about 2K back because of Earned income credit and head of household, but that wouldn't be necessary if we simply didn't need to pay.
State how ever is another matter.

 

[MacNfries]

After your rants about people insulting (do you remember or should I link that too?) and you getting other members ban because they called you a name and constant insults - now you defend someone doing the exact same thing except it's from your side, so that makes it OK -

I assume you're referring to falcond?? ... falcond & I were restricted from posting for a week over our arguments, and as soon as we got back on, he started with his name calling again. I clearly gave the man a warning if he continued with the name callings I would report him ... his words ... "report me" .... so I fucking did.
Now, go take a "quiet time" in the corner and DON'T start with me.

afraid of being alone Mac?

I have no frik'n idea what you're talking about, TwoBi, but I don't like your implication.

 

[MacNfries]

Anyone making less than 30K shouldn't be paying any tax to begin with, flat tax or no.

Show me where that is said in the Trump or Cruz flat tax plans, please!
Second, if THAT IS THE CASE, you've never seen the national debt climb the way it would climb by implementing a flat tax ... unsustainable, but maybe that's what the Trumps & Cruz want ... crash the economy to MAKE the government privatize social security & medicare programs.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/misconceptions-and-realities-about-who-pays-taxes

 

[TwoBiFour]

I assume you're referring to falcond?? ... falcond & I were restricted from posting for a week over our arguments, and as soon as we got back on, he started with his name calling again. I clearly gave the man a warning if he continued with the name callings I would report him ... his words ... "report me" .... so I fucking did.
Now, go take a "quiet time" in the corner and DON'T start with me.

I have no frik'n idea what you're talking about, TwoBi, but I don't like your implication.

Mac, SH is doing to me exactly what falcond did to you - and now you condone it, and you know it - you have read his replies to Alunm and myself. If I'm wrong, like I said - link it. You will be very hard pressed where I called him names - other than "Lap Dog" but no different than "bobblehead". SH keeps bringing up "tit for tat" but I'm not insulting him, I've asked him several times to link it - but he can't.
So do you really want to be that big of a hypocrite?

 

[TwoBiFour]

Show me where that is said in the Trump or Cruz flat tax plans, please!
Second, if THAT IS THE CASE, you've never seen the national debt climb the way it would climb by implementing a flat tax ... unsustainable, but maybe that's what the Trumps & Cruz want ... crash the economy to MAKE the government privatize social security & medicare programs.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/misconceptions-and-realities-about-who-pays-taxes

I never said it was part of it - did I?
I simply said someone making less than 30K shouldn't pay tax.

A flat tax to me also means removal of ALL tax credits/deductions/writes-offs including capital gains - no way to "hide" you income to reduce your tax. But I do agree there needs to be some type of scale simply because if you make the flat % low and fair for the poor, then it is too low for the rich and visa-versa, if you make the % reasonable for the rich, it's too high for the poor.

 

[MacNfries]

Mac, SH is doing to me exactly what falcond did to you - and now you condone it

I haven't condoned anything, TwoBi ... if the 2 of you have issues with each other either take it private or put each other on ignore or quit bringing each other up in topics ... but, quit implying or saying I'm choosing sides simply because I say nothing to subhub . The whole reason I got to dreading this section is because it goes back & forth with no end and no real resolvement ... I've got better use of my time WHEN I have a chance to be on this site than to converse with you polarized right-wingers.

 

[MacNfries]

I simply said someone making less than 30K shouldn't pay tax.

well, let's WISH that in one hand and CRAP in the other hand and see WHICH one fills up first, why don't we? You can't cut the tax revenue from the TOP and the BOTTOM and not make major adjustments in entitlement programs ... unless you wish the economy to crash. Either way, you're hurting the POOR a lot more than you are hurting the RICH.

 

[TwoBiFour]

well, let's WISH that in one hand and CRAP in the other hand and see WHICH one fills up first, why don't we? You can't cut the tax revenue from the TOP and the BOTTOM and not make major adjustments in entitlement programs ... unless you wish the economy to crash. Either way, you're hurting the POOR a lot more than you are hurting the RICH.

Never mind Mac, never mind.

 

[MacNfries]

What you folks, with good jobs and good lives, need to do is go spend a year in the trenches of poverty ... JUST ONCE.

 

[TwoBiFour]

What you folks, with good jobs and good lives, need to do is go spend a year in the trenches of poverty ... JUST ONCE.

I CAME from there, MAC. I WORKED HARD to get where I am - YOU simply want it HANDED to YOU.

What you need to do is work a honest days hard work for a day.. just ONCE.