Current events and 2024 US election thread!

[ridgelyfan]

We're still wrapping up the 2022 election, but we live in the era of the Permanent Campaign Cycle. Everyone is always campaigning and never stops! Let's follow along!

What we learned so far in 2022​

• Democrats are almost definitely keeping the senate, and are in a good position to take an additional seat
• Republicans are on track to take the house (thanks to clever gerrymandering), but by a very narrow margin that's still contested
• The red wave turned out to be a red wave good-bye, as MAGA candidates got absolutely creamed.
• Trump is gearing up to lock horns with DeSantis, with a couple of public barbs already out. Trump demands DeSantis kiss the ring and bow out. Not gonna happen
• Florida and New York both shifted conservative the most out of all the states, while Western states such as Arizona are appearing more blue / purple. (in the case of NY, AOC blames the "calcified" Cuomo political machine for holding the state back and failing to deliver for people)

My predictions for what this means​

• With the democrats losing the house, progressives will likely try to pass every major stalled policy that they can ($15 minimum wage, voting rights, reproductive rights, etc) before the clock runs out. I expect mainstream democrats to try to stop them in a misguided attempt to appear moderate.
• Trump is going to get a lot less cover from the RNC. If he's gearing up to cause a intra-party civil war with DeSantis, letting him go to jail doesn't seem like such a bad outcome
• the MAGA stars are probably going to continue being sidelined. MTG is currently stripped of all committee assignments, and with MAGA losing bigly this election, that might not change. Kevin McCarthy was expected to be house leader if he won, and he'd committed to giving MTG assignments. He's got Scalise gunning for him now though, and it seems likely the RNC will move away from MAGA after this trouncing
• SCOTUS will keep being weird and Clarence Thomas will keep being a traitor to the country.

What are y'all's predictions? Let's keep track of what's going on and discuss it

IMPORTANT NOTE​

We have plenty of threads in here where people can call each other names and argue in bad faith and challenge each other to duels outside the pizza hut after dark. This is not the thread for that. Please do not use personal attacks. No calling people "moron" or "idiot" or "dumbass" or whatever, and no obvious bad faith (i.e. obvious lies). Just go to literally any other thread to do call-outs and rap battles. I will personally be sending each of your moms a copy of this entire thread so be on your best behavior.

 

[ridgelyfan]

The nevada senate election is a real nail-biter. The Republican candidate is leading, but by an tiny sliver, with most of the votes yet to be counted coming from Democrat-leaning areas. If the Democrats get this seat, they keep their senate majority without even needing Warnock to win the run-off (which i think he will)

 

[Andrea38]

Just heard that the AP is betting on Cortez Masto.
So you are probably right Ridgelyfan.
Amazing race in Colorado district 3 .... looks like Boebert will pull through, though a recount will probably occur.
So glad you're trying to keep a civil thread.
I am no Trump supporter, but I would submit sexually to the whims of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert if it would keep the peace.

 

[MacNfries]

It's going to be a very very long time before the damage experienced by the 45th President can be eradicated. Radicals & extremists from both parties need to be removed, the party centrists need to return and try to repair the polarization we currently have. The ones responsible for the hate shown on 1-6 need to be harshly dealt with. There's so much to be repaired & addressed in this country. I can't imagine, with all the issues facing this country that we can't focus on those issues rather than trying to gain political power for selfish desires and self-gain.

We're not out of this by a long shot. I totally expect the militias & MAGA extremists to plan harsh interferences for the next 2 years and for years thereafter.

 

[ridgelyfan]

Just heard that the AP is betting on Cortez Masto.
So you are probably right Ridgelyfan.
Amazing race in Colorado district 3 .... looks like Boebert will pull through, though a recount will probably occur.
So glad you're trying to keep a civil thread.
I am no Trump supporter, but I would submit sexually to the whims of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert if it would keep the peace.

Yep!

The Dems hold the senate!

Opinion | Catherine Cortez Masto remains a model for purple-state Democrats

In her second term, expect Cortez Masto to buck the party at times.

www.msnbc.com

I still think Dems will also hold Warnock's seat. As long as the RNC insists on running outlandish candidates, they'll be in danger even where they think they're "safe"

 

[ridgelyfan]

Another prediction just came true -- Biden announces they're not going to even try for a reproductive rights bill

Biden: Democrats will not have enough votes to codify Roe v. Wade

"I don’t think there’s enough votes to codify unless something happens unusual in the House,” Biden said.

www.axios.com

 

[tonkatoy]

It's going to be a very very long time before the damage experienced by the 45th President can be eradicated. Radicals & extremists from both parties need to be removed, the party centrists need to return and try to repair the polarization we currently have. The ones responsible for the hate shown on 1-6 need to be harshly dealt with. There's so much to be repaired & addressed in this country. I can't imagine, with all the issues facing this country that we can't focus on those issues rather than trying to gain political power for selfish desires and self-gain.

We're not out of this by a long shot. I totally expect the militias & MAGA extremists to plan harsh interferences for the next 2 years and for years thereafter.

View attachment 5590191

I would dearly love to know who the "radicals and extremists" in the Democratic Party are. The GOP has the likes of Boebert and Talylor-(Jewish space lasers)Greene. While the Democratic Party has who? AOC? Tlaib? Sanders? I hate to break it to you Mac but on an issue by issue basis Progressives are right were the vast majority of both Democratic voters and the American people are.

As for your call for "centrism", what does that mean, exactly? The GOP no longer has a centrist wing. Conservative centrism began to flounder under Reagan, was put on life support with Gingrich, and got a stake in its heart with the Tea Party Republicans (who were MAGA by another name.) The DNC is hardly any better. It's "centrism" has produced the likes of Joe Manchin, the increasingly failed attempts at triangulation of the Clinton crowd, and legislative strategies that clearly aren't capable of creating gains in base level liberal goals.

Sorry, but it seems to me that the centrism that you wish for is probably a part if the problem. It seems to me that instead of blaming this country's difficulties on extremists (which only conservatives count among their number) it makes better sense to ask why so few of any political persuasion find any appeal in centrism.

 

[Andrea38]

I would dearly love to know who the "radicals and extremists" in the Democratic Party are. The GOP has the likes of Boebert and Talylor-(Jewish space lasers)Greene. While the Democratic Party has who? AOC? Tlaib? Sanders? I hate to break it to you Mac but on an issue by issue basis Progressives are right were the vast majority of both Democratic voters and the American people are.

As for your call for "centrism", what does that mean, exactly? The GOP no longer has a centrist wing. Conservative centrism began to flounder under Reagan, was put on life support with Gingrich, and got a stake in its heart with the Tea Party Republicans (who were MAGA by another name.) The DNC is hardly any better. It's "centrism" has produced the likes of Joe Manchin, the increasingly failed attempts at triangulation of the Clinton crowd, and legislative strategies that clearly aren't capable of creating gains in base level liberal goals.

Sorry, but it seems to me that the centrism that you wish for is probably a part if the problem. It seems to me that instead of blaming this country's difficulties on extremists (which only conservatives count among their number) it makes better sense to ask why so few of any political persuasion find any appeal in centrism.

I do not agree. The United States has only, in my view, elected centrist Democrats. Possible exceptions would be Lyndon Johnson and Franklin Roosevelt. The Republicans however have successfully gotten conservatives elected; I do agree with your point about Reagan in sinking the liberal wing of the Republicans that may have existed in the 1970s. (Although he later regretted it, RIchard Nixon enacted wage and price controls and his domestic people founded the Environmental Protection Agency). A few years ago, I saw a poll in which Americans were asked to identify themselves as one of the six combinations represented by Republican/Democratic and Conservative/Moderate/Liberal. When I added up the following categories: Moderate Republican+Liberal Republican+Moderate Democrat+Conservative Democrat, the sum came to 42 or 43%. Hardly rigorous, but I believe it points to a plurality of people having a centrist tendency. This plurality, however, will not be so vocal as the extremists because they are probably ambivalent on many issues and many may vote more for the person rather than for the issue. I believe the biggest gripe these centrists have is the demonizing of each extreme side of the other due to its threat to American unity.

 

[Andrea38]

Yep!

The Dems hold the senate!

Opinion | Catherine Cortez Masto remains a model for purple-state Democrats

In her second term, expect Cortez Masto to buck the party at times.

www.msnbc.com

I still think Dems will also hold Warnock's seat. As long as the RNC insists on running outlandish candidates, they'll be in danger even where they think they're "safe"

Congratulations on your second successful prediction.

 

[Andrea38]

It's going to be a very very long time before the damage experienced by the 45th President can be eradicated. Radicals & extremists from both parties need to be removed, the party centrists need to return and try to repair the polarization we currently have. The ones responsible for the hate shown on 1-6 need to be harshly dealt with. There's so much to be repaired & addressed in this country. I can't imagine, with all the issues facing this country that we can't focus on those issues rather than trying to gain political power for selfish desires and self-gain.

We're not out of this by a long shot. I totally expect the militias & MAGA extremists to plan harsh interferences for the next 2 years and for years thereafter.

View attachment 5590191

I am hoping (perhaps vainly) that Trump will have helped to unify America by suggesting the suspension of the constitution. I only wish he would suggest it closer to the 2024 elections.

 

[MacNfries]

I would dearly love to know who the "radicals and extremists" in the Democratic Party are.

As for your call for "centrism", what does that mean, exactly? The GOP no longer has a centrist wing.

Sorry, but it seems to me that the centrism that you wish for is probably a part if the problem.

Democrats have an "extremism" problem just like the Republicans, it's just that Trump has kept extremism more to the front of their party. I think the "Trump 'constitution' remarks" probably stuck the final stake in the heart of the Republicans in the 2022 midterm. Republicans were sure that inflation was the key to victory ... that was until Trump opened his big mouth as usual with killing the constitution.
I consider myself a centrist/left center which to me means I am flexible with listening & considering conservative opinions on most topics. I'm willing to sit at the table and find a mid-point which will move a resolvement of critical issues like gun & abortion & border control. Even if a problem is only 25% addressed, its better than "0" progress on addressing an issue, I think. Then parties can come together at another time to address more of the issues. In essence I'm an Obama Democrat.
By the way the parties address democrats as either national democrats (extreme) or mainstream democrats (centrist). There were several mainstream democrats who chose to retire than run for re-election in 2022 ... like Stephanie Murphy, Kathleen Rice, Ron Kind .... all in congress. There were many others in state governments who simply got fed up with the non-flexable extreme positions within their own parties and simple quit. I'm hoping Joe Manchin will get more on board with the Democrats the next two years. I see Joe as more of a center-right politician which is better than any extreme views either way.

By the way, the Democratic Party would like to say for Trump's help in the 2022 election and encourage him to hang around for 2024.

 

[tonkatoy]

Democrats have an "extremism" problem just like the Republicans, it's just that Trump has kept extremism more to the front of their party. I think the "Trump 'constitution' remarks" probably stuck the final stake in the heart of the Republicans in the 2022 midterm. Republicans were sure that inflation was the key to victory ... that was until Trump opened his big mouth as usual with killing the constitution.
I consider myself a centrist/left center which to me means I am flexible with listening & considering conservative opinions on most topics. I'm willing to sit at the table and find a mid-point which will move a resolvement of critical issues like gun & abortion & border control. Even if a problem is only 25% addressed, its better than "0" progress on addressing an issue, I think. Then parties can come together at another time to address more of the issues. In essence I'm an Obama Democrat.
By the way the parties address democrats as either national democrats (extreme) or mainstream democrats (centrist). There were several mainstream democrats who chose to retire than run for re-election in 2022 ... like Stephanie Murphy, Kathleen Rice, Ron Kind .... all in congress. There were many others in state governments who simply got fed up with the non-flexable extreme positions within their own parties and simple quit. I'm hoping Joe Manchin will get more on board with the Democrats the next two years. I see Joe as more of a center-right politician which is better than any extreme views either way.

By the way, the Democratic Party would like to say View attachment 5658966 for Trump's help in the 2022 election and encourage him to hang around for 2024. View attachment 5658967

Okay, Mac, but I really would like to see a concrete example of Democratic extremism. I don't think you, or anyone else, can provide one.

 

[tonkatoy]

I do not agree. The United States has only, in my view, elected centrist Democrats. Possible exceptions would be Lyndon Johnson and Franklin Roosevelt. The Republicans however have successfully gotten conservatives elected; I do agree with your point about Reagan in sinking the liberal wing of the Republicans that may have existed in the 1970s. (Although he later regretted it, RIchard Nixon enacted wage and price controls and his domestic people founded the Environmental Protection Agency). A few years ago, I saw a poll in which Americans were asked to identify themselves as one of the six combinations represented by Republican/Democratic and Conservative/Moderate/Liberal. When I added up the following categories: Moderate Republican+Liberal Republican+Moderate Democrat+Conservative Democrat, the sum came to 42 or 43%. Hardly rigorous, but I believe it points to a plurality of people having a centrist tendency. This plurality, however, will not be so vocal as the extremists because they are probably ambivalent on many issues and many may vote more for the person rather than for the issue. I believe the biggest gripe these centrists have is the demonizing of each extreme side of the other due to its threat to American unity.

It's a mistake to focus so tightly on the presidency as a barometer for where the American people are politically. Like their parties they represent a coalition of interests, not simply their constituents. That is the presidency must in some way be mindful of factions that have no democratic base at all; the financial services industry being an example of that. They plainly are overrepresented in the halls of power, especially in contrast to the voices of the average voter. I don't see this as the result of centrist tendencies in the American voter, but the constraints placed on politics by the two party system. This is a flattening of political potential that isn't natural to America. Not considering the country's radical history.

I'm not sure that a focus on how individuals identify is for the best. Most people are ideologically incoherent, with most have some party loyalty. Still, if we take a handful of progressive policy proposals, let's say Medicare 4 All, raising the minimum wage, the Green New Deal you will find overwhelming popularity among the general population. They have near universal support among Democratic voters (and the party should pursue the desires of their voters), are popular among independents, and enjoy at least some support with conservatives.

Centrism, as it articulated by the Democratic leadership, seems to be a way of avoiding popular policy positions. It certainly doesn't come across as a way to get most Americans to vote for often uninspiring Democratic candidates.

 

[MacNfries]

Centrism, as it articulated by the Democratic leadership, seems to be a way of avoiding popular policy positions.

You're too focused on centrism as it relates to democrats. Republicans can be centrists as well, and USE TO BE until the Tea Party & Koch Bros ran them out of congress. I'll provide you two extreme democrats. Alexandria Cortez & Bernie Sanders come to mind as "far left" radical thinking. Marjorie Greene, Dan Crenshaw & Kris Kobach as "far right" radical thinkers.

Centrism isn't an ideology, it's a position in the political spectrum. While there is a group of ideologies on the left, and another group of ideologies on the right … centrists get to pick and choose which ideologies they embrace and to what degree. They do their own thinking and choose their own ideologies for themselves. They believe in "give a little, take a litte" type discussions to keep the solutions solvable & simple.

I like centrists because they are the group most likely to be logical in their opinions on various topics. Ask a centrist why they think the way they do, and they will give you an answer like ... "its a starting point between liberal & conservative discussion." The center is the only position on the political spectrum without a tribal faction offering to do their thinking for them —so centrists do their own thinking in order to have logical & acceptable solutions to problems that both parties can agree.

 

[tonkatoy]

You're too focused on centrism as it relates to democrats. Republicans can be centrists as well, and USE TO BE until the Tea Party & Koch Bros ran them out of congress. I'll provide you two extreme democrats. Alexandria Cortez & Bernie Sanders come to mind as "far left" radical thinking. Marjorie Greene, Dan Crenshaw & Kris Kobach as "far right" radical thinkers.

Centrism isn't an ideology, it's a position in the political spectrum. While there is a group of ideologies on the left, and another group of ideologies on the right … centrists get to pick and choose which ideologies they embrace and to what degree. They do their own thinking and choose their own ideologies for themselves. They believe in "give a little, take a litte" type discussions to keep the solutions solvable & simple.

I like centrists because they are the group most likely to be logical in their opinions on various topics. Ask a centrist why they think the way they do, and they will give you an answer like ... "its a starting point between liberal & conservative discussion." The center is the only position on the political spectrum without a tribal faction offering to do their thinking for them —so centrists do their own thinking in order to have logical & acceptable solutions to problems that both parties can agree.

Mac, your the one who brought up centrism, not me. And you brought it up as an ideal political position. Which I think is ill considered.

Regardless, neither Senator Sanders or Rep. Ocasio-Cortez can be considered radical "far leftists. Saying something like that makes you seem politically naive.

Let's take a look at Sanders. The policy positions that he stands for and holds, universal healthcare, College for All, greater unionization in the workplace, expanding social security are old fashioned liberal propositions. There is nothing radical or leftist about them. They are policies that the Democratic Party has advocated for for the better part of a century. And in on or two cases things that the country has already done successfully in the past. I'll also throw in here that Sanders is still the single most trusted politician in the country. Much of this goes for Ocasio-Cortez as well.

Neither of these two "far leftists" are advocating for the abolition of private property or an end to unjust hierarchies. They are liberals, Mac. Progressive liberals, but just liberals. And the Democratic Party should be a perfect place for FDR liberalism.

 

[MacNfries]

Not according to the chumps over at Fox News ... here's their entire list of RADICAL Far-Left Democrats. Educate yourself, tonkatoy.
Your words ... "neither Senator Sanders or Rep. Ocasio-Cortez can be considered radical "far leftists. Saying something like that makes you seem politically naive."
I still think you don't know what radical or far-left implies and what Democrats would be badged those definitions. Certainly not the President or VP, nor Nancy Pelosi as far as that matters.
So, to YOU, just who are those radical, far-left democrats you refer too ... let's look at what they've represented while in Congress. Then we'll do the same with Republicans.
Just keep in mind, before the two parties in Congress ever come together like they use to in the 1980s & 1990s, they've got to clean out the polarization in their parties. Not going to be easy to do in the Republcan party, you still have Trump piddling around, stirring up his base. Non-MAGA republicans need to join the Democrats in getting rid of Trump. Only way to do that is to throw his ass in prison, in solitude.

LURCHING LEFT: Here’s the Complete List of Radical Democrats Co-Sponsoring Cortez’ Green New Deal | Sean Hannity

Self-described Democratic-Socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez pulled-back the curtains on her long-promised ‘Green New Deal’ this week; unveiling...

hannity.com

 

[tonkatoy]

Not according to the chumps over at Fox News ... here's their entire list of RADICAL Far-Left Democrats. Educate yourself, tonkatoy.
Your words ... "neither Senator Sanders or Rep. Ocasio-Cortez can be considered radical "far leftists. Saying something like that makes you seem politically naive."
I still think you don't know what radical or far-left implies and what Democrats would be badged those definitions. Certainly not the President or VP, nor Nancy Pelosi as far as that matters.
So, to YOU, just who are those radical, far-left democrats you refer too ... let's look at what they've represented while in Congress. Then we'll do the same with Republicans.
Just keep in mind, before the two parties in Congress ever come together like they use to in the 1980s & 1990s, they've got to clean out the polarization in their parties. Not going to be easy to do in the Republcan party, you still have Trump piddling around, stirring up his base. Non-MAGA republicans need to join the Democrats in getting rid of Trump. Only way to do that is to throw his ass in prison, in solitude.

LURCHING LEFT: Here’s the Complete List of Radical Democrats Co-Sponsoring Cortez’ Green New Deal | Sean Hannity

Self-described Democratic-Socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez pulled-back the curtains on her long-promised ‘Green New Deal’ this week; unveiling...

hannity.com

...taking cues from FOX News is for simpletons. You don't actually think that Sean Hannity is a sound barometer of political sensibility, do you? You should know better than that, Mac. The Left and far-Left are very well defined. And there are no politicians in the Democratic Party that fit the bill. None. Seriously, there is no one that advocates for the workers owning the means of production.

Regardless, as for non-MAGA republicans... No such ******* exists. Sorry, bud, but American conservatism has been drifting towards someone like Trump for about a generation. Trump simply took advantage of the conditions already set by that party and its politics. Its why he won the Republican primaries in 2016. Even if you get rid of him, his ideas policies and general approach to politics aren't going anywhere. Someone else will simply pick up his baton and finish the race he started.

 

[MacNfries]

...taking cues from FOX News is for simpletons. You don't actually think that Sean Hannity is a sound barometer of political sensibility, do you? You should know better than that, Mac.

I'm sorry you had a difficult time "reading" my post ... keep trying, however. Your "opinion" is still appreciated as your own opinion.

 

[ed4mwf]

You're too focused on centrism as it relates to democrats. Republicans can be centrists as well, and USE TO BE until the Tea Party & Koch Bros ran them out of congress. I'll provide you two extreme democrats. Alexandria Cortez & Bernie Sanders come to mind as "far left" radical thinking. Marjorie Greene, Dan Crenshaw & Kris Kobach as "far right" radical thinkers.

Centrism isn't an ideology, it's a position in the political spectrum. While there is a group of ideologies on the left, and another group of ideologies on the right … centrists get to pick and choose which ideologies they embrace and to what degree. They do their own thinking and choose their own ideologies for themselves. They believe in "give a little, take a litte" type discussions to keep the solutions solvable & simple.

I like centrists because they are the group most likely to be logical in their opinions on various topics. Ask a centrist why they think the way they do, and they will give you an answer like ... "its a starting point between liberal & conservative discussion." The center is the only position on the political spectrum without a tribal faction offering to do their thinking for them —so centrists do their own thinking in order to have logical & acceptable solutions to problems that both parties can agree.

You really think AOC and Sanders are the opposite to MGT, Paul Gosar and Matt Gaetz?
We don't have radical lefties in office. When AOC and the young guns went after Pelosi, they lost, and fell in line and are learning how Congress works instead of setting fires.

 

[ridgelyfan]

another of my predictions is coming true

3 strikes for McCarthy — but he's not out yet

The House adjourned Tuesday without a speaker, and opposition to the Republican leader only increased in the final ballot.

www.politico.com