Death Penalty: For or Against

Death Penalty: For or Against

  • I'm for the Death Penalty

    Votes: 96 65.8%
  • I'm against the Death Penalty

    Votes: 41 28.1%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 9 6.2%

  • Total voters
    146
You should take a look at what the costs are before the inmate is executed. The appeal process is long and expensive. It is cheaper just to lock them up for life. If they are locked up for life at least they are alive if it is shown at a later time they are innocent. Despite all the appeals and other complications it is a good bet we have executed some innocent people. You want their deaths to be gruesome and painful as the ones they murdered. Tell me then what is the difference between you and people you want executed.
I've gone to quite some detail explaining "under what conditions" I would support the death sentence. If there was no doubt in the guiltiness of that individual, the costs would be far, far, far less costly. And as I said, executions should be done quickly upon due process, and held publicly ...
  • There would be no way, as your quote says ..."it is a good bet we have executed some innocent people" that anyone executed under my conditions would be unjustly executed.
    • you express an issue with executing a person who is proven 100% guilty of a crime, BUT, you have no issue with sending our military over seas which resulted in 1,000's of innocent civilians THERE being killed? Get REAL!
  • If it was your family member who was gruesomely murdered, you know you'd want vengeance too, you know you would. Heck, it is you who carries around a gun, and it is you who wants to get me in a boxing ring so you can bash my head in for not showing you respect & reverence ... and you're preaching to me about the gruesomeness of the death penalty? (((chuckles)))
Matthews 5:38-39
Ezekiel 25:17
Exodus 21:24-25
Leviticus 19:18

"Vengeance Is Mine, So Sayeth The Lord"
 
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I've gone to quite some detail explaining "under what conditions" I would support the death sentence. If there was no doubt in the guiltiness of that individual, the costs would be far, far, far less costly. And as I said, executions should be done quickly upon due process, and held publicly ...
  • There would be no way, as your quote says ..."it is a good bet we have executed some innocent people" that anyone executed under my conditions would be unjustly executed.
    • you express an issue with executing a person who is proven 100% guilty of a crime, BUT, you have no issue with sending our military over seas which resulted in 1,000's of innocent civilians THERE being killed? Get REAL!
  • If it was your family member who was gruesomely murdered, you know you'd want vengeance too, you know you would. Heck, it is you who carries around a gun, and it is you who wants to get me in a boxing ring so you can bash my head in for not showing you respect & reverence ... and you're preaching to me about the gruesomeness of the death penalty? (((chuckles)))
Matthews 5:38-39
Ezekiel 25:17
Exodus 21:24-25
Leviticus 19:18

"Vengeance Is Mine, So Sayeth The Lord"

It is amazing how religious you can get when it fits your narrative.
 
It is amazing how religious you can get when it fits your narrative.
My ******* is a Methodist minister ... I've mentioned it several times, falcond. I come from a very religious family. You know that; I haven't suddenly found religion ... I grew UP with it.
 
If it was your family member who was gruesomely murdered, you know you'd want vengeance too, you know you would. Heck, it is you who carries around a gun, and it is you who wants to get me in a boxing ring so you can bash my head in for not showing you respect & reverence ... and you're preaching to me about the gruesomeness of the death penalty?
Because some one is angry and wants revenge doesn't mean they should be accommodated. I carry a firearm to defend myself or others if necessary. The only way I would use it was if I was confident the person(s) was trying to use lethal *******.

I really wouldn't want to to do you any serious damage in the ring, although I would enjoy the experience. You seem to have lead a somewhat sheltered life. You apparently have never served your country. You also have never had your life on the line. However you are quite willing to go on at length about how the military should be used among other subjects you seem to have little or no first hand knowledge. I think is likely part of the reason I would enjoy getting you in the ring. Let you learn about dealing with confrontation and violence but in a safe way so you really don't get hurt much
 
Totally against the death penalty simply because mistakes have been made in the past where the wrong people have been imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit. Imagine if it was you!
 
Totally against the death penalty simply because mistakes have been made in the past where the wrong people have been imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit. Imagine if it was you!
One of the major justification for capital punishment is that it is a deterrent. However I haven't seen any evidence to support that. Many murders are crimes of passion. Someone gets pissed of, and someone ends up dead. Doesn't make any difference if it is a parking ticket or a homicide no one breaks the law anticipating they are going to be caught
 
I think it's too easy when you read about a serious crime in the papers or hear it on the news to be drawn into wanting vengeance on the person who has committed the act. It's easy for us to define that person in terms of who they are for what they did in those 5 seconds or 5 minutes of their life and not want to know more about who they really are or what led them to do it in the first place. Punishment is necessary but so is understanding the perpetrator - so society can learn as a whole how to improve and hence possibly reduce terrible acts being committed by people in the future.
 
I think it's too easy when you read about a serious crime in the papers or hear it on the news to be drawn into wanting vengeance on the person who has committed the act. It's easy for us to define that person in terms of who they are for what they did in those 5 seconds or 5 minutes of their life and not want to know more about who they really are or what led them to do it in the first place. Punishment is necessary but so is understanding the perpetrator - so society can learn as a whole how to improve and hence possibly reduce terrible acts being committed by people in the future.

Totally disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. They killed once, they will ******* again.
 
I was trying to make the point that often perpetrators of heinous crimes have previously been victims of some sort of abuse or tragedy and if we as a society do a better job of helping young victims of abuse and tragedy then we reduce thier own impact on society as adults.
 
I was trying to make the point that often perpetrators of heinous crimes have previously been victims of some sort of abuse or tragedy and if we as a society do a better job of helping young victims of abuse and tragedy then we reduce thier own impact on society as adults.

I agree. Yes they have been, And no I did not get that from your post. Sorry.
My point to your statement here is the CPS's of the world are in a catch-22. 1) they remove ******* from the home too early and get sued and lambasted for unnecessarily taking a kid from his parents. 3) the wait too long to take a kid fro the parents and either end up with a dead kid or a monster like some of the mass murderers we are talking about. Then, the CPS gets sued and lambasted for that. It's a total lose - lose situation for them.
How do we find those who are at risk for becoming those monsters? Psychology and Analysis are jokes of a field. They are totally guessing at what might be bothering someone. That is because we all come from different backgrounds and conditions. I really don't think there is a solution to this problem.
 
Google Kenneth McDuff. He was put on death row in the 60's. Then it was abolished so he went to Life in prison. Some where along the line somebody thought he paid his debt and was released. So malizia, why don't you go explain to the families of his next 7 to 9 women he murdered after being released because they would still be alive today if he was executed the first time when he should have been.
I would fault the system as much as the killer. If he had been sentenced to death they should have been able to figure out that he should have never been released. When the death penalty was abolished the sentence should have been life without parole.
 
I was trying to make the point that often perpetrators of heinous crimes have previously been victims of some sort of abuse or tragedy and if we as a society do a better job of helping young victims of abuse and tragedy then we reduce thier own impact on society as adults.
It is a slippery slope. At what point should society immerse itself in family life? I have an acquaintance that has a ******* that by age 3 1/2 was not talking. The county social services got wind of the boys situation and decided to get involved. They determined that the baby was autistic, and mentally handicapped. The parents were in and out of court and at one point there was an attempt to remove the baby from his parents custody. In the midst of all this the baby started talking. It was really amazing, he just started talking in complete well structured sentences. He is 15 years old now and is taking advanced placement classes and plans on being an Eagle scout. I would be very concerned about government involvement in parenting. More to your point people that are victims are sometimes so damaged that they can not be salvaged. Ottis Toole is a classic example
 
the problem is not dp
the point is the method of execution....lethal injection sucks and sometimes it's painful
I think the best method (even for those who must be executed) is guillotine
 
You can never be 100% sure that the person who is being killed actually deserved it, there are so many errors that can be made and many innocent men have been killed for a crime that they did not commit. That is immoral and outrageous.

I also question the morality of it all. 'So you killed someone? That is wrong. Therefore someone will ******* you.' Doesn't make sense to me.

I understand that people, especially the family of the victim might want vengeance. And i think that for some crimes it would better not to waste money including the families taxes on feeding and clothing the criminal in jail. However if the criminal is mentally ill and could not help himself i.e no self-control then killing him is wrong. If he is mentally ill and gets a kick out of what he is doing then i don't know tbh. I'm not necessarily opposed to killing someone if it is necessary i.e. self-defense.

Locking someone up is probably enough punishment for crimes of passion. And locking someone up is probably enough to keep dangerous mentally ill people from harming society.
 
You can never be 100% sure that the person who is being killed actually deserved it ...
Sure you can be 100% sure ... what about cases like the Boston Marathon Bombers who were videoed planting the bombs, and had bomb making parts in their apartment?
This is why I said in this thread that IF it was 100% provable, then the legal system can be basically taken out of the loop and the judicial system review and sentence the guilty party. This would save the legal system millions of $$ on cases like the Boston case where there was no doubt, and it could get "fast process". Then, the method of death should be fast, effective, and painless ... my recommendation has always been the guillotine. And, I recommend that capital punishments be done publicly to any adult wishing to witness it.
 
Sure you can be 100% sure ... what about cases like the Boston Marathon Bombers who were videoed planting the bombs, and had bomb making parts in their apartment?
This is why I said in this thread that IF it was 100% provable, then the legal system can be basically taken out of the loop and the judicial system review and sentence the guilty party. This would save the legal system millions of $$ on cases like the Boston case where there was no doubt, and it could get "fast process". Then, the method of death should be fast, effective, and painless ... my recommendation has always been the guillotine. And, I recommend that capital punishments be done publicly to any adult wishing to witness it.

I think you can hardly ever be 100% sure, with your particular example even with the video evidence they were misidentified multiple times (consult the wikipedia article for multiple sources). Also and I quote from the wikipedia article 'Despite video footage taken at the scene,[74] the suspects were not identified by authorities before killing a police officer and hijacking a civilian vehicle.' It is possible that if they had chosen to they might have been able to escape completely and never be identified. What if one of the misidentified suspects had some degree of evidence linking him to the crime? If my DNA was found at a crime scene and i had no alibi and i was on trial facing the death penalty then i don't think i would be able to compose myself enough to put up a good defence.

Just google wrongful executions...I bet they were 100% sure that they were guilty, otherwise they wouldn't have executed them now would they? There are literally so many cases, just check some out and tell me you still support the death penalty. There are too many factors to consider. No point dealing with what ifs, we simply don't have a magical perfect system.

I also question the value of executing criminals. It didn't do any good with those Boston Marathon Bombers did it? They probably thought that they are 'martyrs' now, and they might have inspired others to commit similar acts. It didn't deter them, indeed there is no evidence that the death penalty deters criminals. Maybe truly gruesome and excruciatingly painful executions might deter some people, but even then i have my doubts. Killing people is just barbaric in my opinion. If you are worried about spending money on them to keep them in jail then this can be offset by making them do some sort of work possibly.

Might i ask why you support the death penalty?

"This is why I said in this thread that IF it was 100% provable, then the legal system can be basically taken out of the loop and the judicial system review and sentence the guilty party. This would save the legal system millions of $$ on cases like the Boston case where there was no doubt, and it could get "fast process"
Taking the legal system out of the loop and forgoing the judicial system review is never a good idea and is not the kind of precedent that should be set. You either have due process, or you don't have due process. While i see where you are coming from, no one likes to see public funds wasted on a big bureaucratic mess. how are we meant to decide when to initiate this 'fast process'? A public vote? A vote by jury? Or by judges? By a governor or some kind of politician? It seems like it would be open to abuse, especially if there is a charged media atmosphere and the accused is unpopular. Innocent until proven guilty at the end of the day, and that requires a robust legal system and judicial system review with no exceptions otherwise it innocent until proven guilty falls apart. And that could lead to a slippery slope.
 
Other than revenge the death penalty doesn't serve any useful purpose. Deterrence is a myth. Whether it is mass ******* or a speeding ticket nobody (with very rare exceptions) breaks the law with the intention of getting caught. As to revenge it can turn into a perpetual loop of violence
 
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