Politics, Politics, Politics

[MacNfries]

All this crying and pointing the finger at the President & Democrats ... and I recall specifically that it was the Republicans who signed a "no tax increase pledge" with Grover Norquist during Obama's first presidency, even thought the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to expire. In essence, by extending the Bush tax cuts, the Republicans cut revenue yet again ... and again. And I recall Obama offering a 3:1 "spending cuts to new revenue" grand deal which Boehner chose to decline because he and his House were afraid Grover Norquist would take their jobs. So who, exactly, are contributing to the growing national debt?
And how did that Norquist "no tax pledge" work out? Why not look at some of the Republican state legislatures, like Bobby Jindal's Louisiana, which currently has a $1.6 billion state deficient and is last in employment, education, and practically every other measurable economic category. And that idiot wants to run for President? And now Grover Norquist has gone after Jeb Bush (who wouldn't sign his pledge) as a threat to supporting him if he runs for President.
Guys, "trickle down" DOES NOT WORK; its totally destroying the working class. The only reason NC hasn't signed onto the Republican con-con is because they know if they do, it opens up the challenge of the corporate big money contributions/influence going on in NC now. Our Republican legislators are proposing yet another corporate tax cut even though the tax cuts they recently did have already created a $230+ million deficit.
There's a solution to our national debt (60%+ owned by the last 3 Republican presidents), but it has to include a balance of spending cuts AND a balanced tax revenue increase ... nothing else will work ... NOTHING! And if Republicans continue insisting on revenue cuts the deficit and Nat'l debt can only increase. Corporate BIG MONEY needs to get out of our political system.

 

[cuckcrazy]

All this crying and pointing the finger at the President & Democrats ... and I recall specifically that it was the Republicans who signed a "no tax increase pledge" with Grover Norquist during Obama's first presidency, even thought the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to expire. In essence, by extending the Bush tax cuts, the Republicans cut revenue yet again ... and again. And I recall Obama offering a 3:1 "spending cuts to new revenue" grand deal which Boehner chose to decline because he and his House were afraid Grover Norquist would take their jobs. So who, exactly, are contributing to the growing national debt?
And how did that Norquist "no tax pledge" work out? Why not look at some of the Republican state legislatures, like Bobby Jindal's Louisiana, which currently has a $1.6 billion state deficient and is last in employment, education, and practically every other measurable economic category. And that idiot wants to run for President? View attachment 555188 And now Grover Norquist has gone after Jeb Bush (who wouldn't sign his pledge) as a threat to supporting him if he runs for President.
Guys, "trickle down" DOES NOT WORK; its totally destroying the working class. The only reason NC hasn't signed onto the Republican con-con is because they know if they do, it opens up the challenge of the corporate big money contributions/influence going on in NC now. Our Republican legislators are proposing yet another corporate tax cut even though the tax cuts they recently did have already created a $230+ million deficit.
There's a solution to our national debt (60%+ owned by the last 3 Republican presidents), but it has to include a balance of spending cuts AND a balanced tax revenue increase ... nothing else will work ... NOTHING! And if Republicans continue insisting on revenue cuts the deficit and Nat'l debt can only increase. Corporate BIG MONEY needs to get out of our political system.
View attachment 555191

MacNfries, check out The Young Turks on youtube or Facebook and Wolf-Pac.com They are running a pac to get money out of politics. It's already passed in I think 10 states. Once you get 2/3 of the states to pass it you can take before the house of reps. and they have to vote on it. Then we'll see who has the bigger voice. Big money or concerned citizens!

 

[cuckcrazy]

MacNfries, check out The Young Turks on youtube or Facebook and Wolf-Pac.com They are running a pac to get money out of politics. It's already passed in I think 10 states. Once you get 2/3 of the states to pass it you can take before the house of reps. and they have to vote on it. Then we'll see who has the bigger voice. Big money or concerned citizens!

Here's a link to their latest victory.

 

[LukeAdams]

All this crying and pointing the finger at the President & Democrats ... and I recall specifically that it was the Republicans who signed a "no tax increase pledge" with Grover Norquist during Obama's first presidency, even thought the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to expire. In essence, by extending the Bush tax cuts, the Republicans cut revenue yet again ... and again. And I recall Obama offering a 3:1 "spending cuts to new revenue" grand deal which Boehner chose to decline because he and his House were afraid Grover Norquist would take their jobs. So who, exactly, are contributing to the growing national debt?
And how did that Norquist "no tax pledge" work out? Why not look at some of the Republican state legislatures, like Bobby Jindal's Louisiana, which currently has a $1.6 billion state deficient and is last in employment, education, and practically every other measurable economic category. And that idiot wants to run for President? View attachment 555188 And now Grover Norquist has gone after Jeb Bush (who wouldn't sign his pledge) as a threat to supporting him if he runs for President.
Guys, "trickle down" DOES NOT WORK; its totally destroying the working class. The only reason NC hasn't signed onto the Republican con-con is because they know if they do, it opens up the challenge of the corporate big money contributions/influence going on in NC now. Our Republican legislators are proposing yet another corporate tax cut even though the tax cuts they recently did have already created a $230+ million deficit.
There's a solution to our national debt (60%+ owned by the last 3 Republican presidents), but it has to include a balance of spending cuts AND a balanced tax revenue increase ... nothing else will work ... NOTHING! And if Republicans continue insisting on revenue cuts the deficit and Nat'l debt can only increase. Corporate BIG MONEY needs to get out of our political system.
View attachment 555191

You say "as I recall...Obama offered a 3 for 1." If you want to review who offered what and who reneged on what, read Bob Woodard's [that ole right wing Repub of Watergate fame] book on that episode.
Economists cannot agree on the ultimate value of deficit spending to the short term economy. But all agree that long-term it is bad. Currently, with the entitlement issues we have, it is hard to believe that some Dems in Congress are actually moving to enlarge Soc Sec payouts. The latest may be in your local newspaper. Both parties are at fault with entitlements. But currently it is some, not most, Dems that incredibly want to increase the payouts. Even Obama has not signaled that he would support that, although I am sure he would if it were politically feasible.
Repubs thought they were very clever with getting tough on spending with tax cuts 30 years or so ago. There were some and still is, a large group that believe tax cuts stimulate the short term economy, although loosening government restrictions appears to help more. The Repubs adopted the "starve the beast" theory, thinking that Dems would never agree to large deficits, and would be ****** to do the right thing, and curtail spending. But the Dems had no such intention of doing so.
Then Karl Rove came along and said deficits don't matter. I don't think he meant that they don't matter to the economy. He meant that they don't matter to the general public-the federal deficit is way down the list in opinion polls of what people are concerned about. Regardless of what he meant, it was a damning comment.
So, if you want to think one party is at fault and your party, whichever that is, is pure, go ahead. But we will all pay.
When someone talks of tax increases, they appear to assume that taxes are historically low. But when city, state, other local taxes are added to federal , we appear to be close to an all-time high. At least that is what I read, although those numbers can by played around with. But, soon states will have to increase taxes to take care of the Obamacare changes, as well as the other mandates the federal government forces states to do.
Federal spending cannot be curtailed without reforming entitlements. Spending on some of the few good programs that incentivize people while helping them out of poverty are already being cut, due to lack of funds.
But I am not leaving this country. We will survive whatever happens, and eventually partly correct the problem. The sorry thing is that there will be a lot of suffering by a lot of people first. The suffering could have been avoided.

 

[LukeAdams]

mmm

 

[LukeAdams]

I would never turn down the opportunity to play against any pro. I have done some of my best thinking on the golf course. Every so often I will grab a few balls and a 5 iron and play 9 holes with just the 5 iron. It's great once in awhile gives the game a very different perspective.

Several years ago, three of us were ready to tee off at a resort golf course. A fellow drove up in his cart , got up close to us and said "I am deaf, but I read lips. Can I play with you?" He was very hard to understand, as if he had been deaf from birth and had never heard a human voice. He was a scratch golfer, and had a nice set of clubs. He pulled out a scorecard from Pebble Beach, about a month old. As we made the turn at 10, his wife and two daughters were all talking and moving their hands. He took it all in and answered back.
Usually he had honors. I told my friends what I planned to do. Don't do it, they said.
But in the middle of his back swing on the final hole, I did not wave my arms, but I shouted "Swing motherfucker!" Long pause. Finally, he said, " I heard that."
He really did not say anything, but I like to tell it to friends that he did.

 

[cuckcrazy]

You say "as I recall...Obama offered a 3 for 1." If you want to review who offered what and who reneged on what, read Bob Woodard's [that ole right wing Repub of Watergate fame] book on that episode. The regular readers of this thread are familiar with the following, but I will recap for those looking for a bbc or some such that, after a couple of Scotches, accidentally landed here.
Economists cannot agree on the ultimate value of deficit spending to the short term economy. But all agree that long-term it is bad. Currently, with the entitlement issues we have, it is hard to believe that some Dems in Congress are actually moving to enlarge Soc Sec payouts. The latest may be in your local newspaper. Both parties are at fault with entitlements. But currently it is some, not most, Dems that incredibly want to increase the payouts. Even Obama has not signaled that he would support that, although I am sure he would if it were politically feasible.
Repubs thought they were very clever with getting tough on spending with tax cuts 30 years or so ago. There were some and still is, a large group that believe tax cuts stimulate the short term economy, although loosening government restrictions appears to help more. The Repubs adopted the "starve the beast" theory, thinking that Dems would never agree to large deficits, and would be ****** to do the right thing, and curtail spending. But the Dems had no such intention of doing so.
Then Karl Rove came along and said deficits don't matter. I don't think he meant that they don't matter to the economy. He meant that they don't matter to the general public-the federal deficit is way down the list in opinion polls of what people are concerned about. Regardless of what he meant, it was a damning comment.
So, if you want to think one party is at fault and your party, whichever that is, is pure, go ahead. But we will all pay.
When someone talks of tax increases, they appear to assume that taxes are historically low. But when city, state, other local taxes are added to federal , we are at an all-time high. Soon states will have to increase taxes to take care of the Obamacare changes, as well as the other mandates the federal government forces states to do.
Federal spending cannot be curtailed without reforming entitlements. Spending on some of the few good programs that incentivize people while helping them out of poverty are already being cut, due to lack of funds.
But I am not leaving this country. We will survive whatever happens, and eventually partly correct the problem. The sorry thing is that there will be a lot of suffering by a lot of people first. The suffering could have been avoided.

How about

You say "as I recall...Obama offered a 3 for 1." If you want to review who offered what and who reneged on what, read Bob Woodard's [that ole right wing Repub of Watergate fame] book on that episode. The regular readers of this thread are familiar with the following, but I will recap for those looking for a bbc or some such that, after a couple of Scotches, accidentally landed here.
Economists cannot agree on the ultimate value of deficit spending to the short term economy. But all agree that long-term it is bad. Currently, with the entitlement issues we have, it is hard to believe that some Dems in Congress are actually moving to enlarge Soc Sec payouts. The latest may be in your local newspaper. Both parties are at fault with entitlements. But currently it is some, not most, Dems that incredibly want to increase the payouts. Even Obama has not signaled that he would support that, although I am sure he would if it were politically feasible.
Repubs thought they were very clever with getting tough on spending with tax cuts 30 years or so ago. There were some and still is, a large group that believe tax cuts stimulate the short term economy, although loosening government restrictions appears to help more. The Repubs adopted the "starve the beast" theory, thinking that Dems would never agree to large deficits, and would be ****** to do the right thing, and curtail spending. But the Dems had no such intention of doing so.
Then Karl Rove came along and said deficits don't matter. I don't think he meant that they don't matter to the economy. He meant that they don't matter to the general public-the federal deficit is way down the list in opinion polls of what people are concerned about. Regardless of what he meant, it was a damning comment.
So, if you want to think one party is at fault and your party, whichever that is, is pure, go ahead. But we will all pay.
When someone talks of tax increases, they appear to assume that taxes are historically low. But when city, state, other local taxes are added to federal , we are at an all-time high. Soon states will have to increase taxes to take care of the Obamacare changes, as well as the other mandates the federal government forces states to do.
Federal spending cannot be curtailed without reforming entitlements. Spending on some of the few good programs that incentivize people while helping them out of poverty are already being cut, due to lack of funds.
But I am not leaving this country. We will survive whatever happens, and eventually partly correct the problem. The sorry thing is that there will be a lot of suffering by a lot of people first. The suffering could have been avoided.

Several years ago, three of us were ready to tee off at a resort golf course. A fellow drove up in his cart , got up close to us and said "I am deaf, but I read lips. Can I play with you?" He was very hard to understand, as if he had been deaf from birth and had never heard a human voice. He was a scratch golfer, and had a nice set of clubs. He pulled out a scorecard from Pebble Beach, about a month old. As we made the turn at 10, his wife and two daughters were all talking and moving their hands. He took it all in and answered back.
Usually he had honors. I told my friends what I planned to do. Don't do it, they said.
But in the middle of his back swing on the final hole, I did not wave my arms, but I shouted "Swing motherfucker!" Long pause. Finally, he said, " I heard that."
He really did not say anything, but I like to tell it to friends that he did.

WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Nothing, stick to the topic please.

 

[Torpedo]

I will, my friend. But I truly love the Philippines. My goal is to live six months in Dallas and 6 months in the Philippines. But I am trying to be open about it. I know MANY guys who are ex-pats in the Philippines.

Not a bad goal, but we can't all go to the same place.

 

[falcondfw69]

All this crying and pointing the finger at the President & Democrats ... and I recall specifically that it was the Republicans who signed a "no tax increase pledge" with Grover Norquist during Obama's first presidency, even thought the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to expire. In essence, by extending the Bush tax cuts, the Republicans cut revenue yet again ... and again. And I recall Obama offering a 3:1 "spending cuts to new revenue" grand deal which Boehner chose to decline because he and his House were afraid Grover Norquist would take their jobs. So who, exactly, are contributing to the growing national debt?
And how did that Norquist "no tax pledge" work out? Why not look at some of the Republican state legislatures, like Bobby Jindal's Louisiana, which currently has a $1.6 billion state deficient and is last in employment, education, and practically every other measurable economic category. And that idiot wants to run for President? View attachment 555188 And now Grover Norquist has gone after Jeb Bush (who wouldn't sign his pledge) as a threat to supporting him if he runs for President.
Guys, "trickle down" DOES NOT WORK; its totally destroying the working class. The only reason NC hasn't signed onto the Republican con-con is because they know if they do, it opens up the challenge of the corporate big money contributions/influence going on in NC now. Our Republican legislators are proposing yet another corporate tax cut even though the tax cuts they recently did have already created a $230+ million deficit.
There's a solution to our national debt (60%+ owned by the last 3 Republican presidents), but it has to include a balance of spending cuts AND a balanced tax revenue increase ... nothing else will work ... NOTHING! And if Republicans continue insisting on revenue cuts the deficit and Nat'l debt can only increase. Corporate BIG MONEY needs to get out of our political system.
View attachment 555191

Mac? Seriously? No one was playing politics here. Someone was disappointed with the repubs. I just pointed out who started the tea party. Nothing against Dems or libs. Just the facts.
People are more than free to agree with whoever displays their similar viewpoint. That is what is great about this country.
I don't give a damn about grover norquist or tickle down or anything else. I don't care about demonization or how good one group makes you feel over the other. I only care about what works. Corporate? Big Money? Is why you have a job!!! Do you have your own business, Mac? No? Then you are a slave to "the machine", like the rest of us. Stop bitching and be grateful you have a job at all!!!

 

[LukeAdams]

How about


WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Nothing, stick to the topic please.

I accidentally clicked the wrong thing to reply to-meant to reference one of Torpedos' golf stories. But yessir! I will behave from now on. Glad to see who is in charge here. Another case of the morons running the asylum.

 

[falcondfw69]

I think the reason for the polarization is the internet has demolished the information gatekeepers. We are no longer beholden to the MSM and can form our own opinions and groups of like minded people with little effort.

I see this gridlock as beneficial. The federal govt is ultimately going to crack and give up power to regional entities.

Example; why should someone from Vermont have any say on water policy within a state residing in the southwest? Or why should someone in Nevada have any say on fishery management in the northeast?

On your specific arguments, Agreed. That is why we have the 10th amendment.

I accidentally clicked the wrong thing to reply to-meant to reference one of Torpedos' golf stories. But yessir! I will behave from now on. Glad to see who is in charge here. Another case of the morons running the asylum.

Luke,
You are totally entired to your opinion and your belief. That is what makes this country great. Be proud. Be loud. I may disagree with Mac and others, but I respect their right to give their opinion and we all learn from how they feel.

 

[Torpedo]

First job was a paper route. Yes, really. lol. All through high school, I used to caddy on a golf course. Made some damned good money sometimes. Fell in love with the game. On the high school team as a freshman. Spent time in the military. Friends are lifers, in several ways.
Government knows how to balance a checkbook. Anyone can log on to intuit, quickbooks, tax cut, etc. Government just refuses to.
Health care in this country is so expensive because the ******* companies and health care companies have the best people and best equipment in the world. They can attempt things and do things here that they cannot do in the rest of the world. Many other countries have "death panels". If grandma is 85 years old and has heart issues, maybe we should not pay for a new hip for her.
When you compare apples to apples, there is no place like the good 'ole usa for proper health care.
As for SS, I think you are very correct. In order for it to be soluable for the long term, there are going to have to be MAJOR changes and I don't think you or I will be consulted. I don't even think we will get the benefits of what we have payed into.

If you have deep enough pockets there are some very cutting edge treatments available in the United States. However across the board health care in this country simply isn't that good. A few years back WHO (World Health organization) rated it 191 members. The United States was 1 in expenditures per capita and 38th in quality of care. We were between Costa Rica and Slovenia. A 2014 report by the Common Wealth Fund rated the U.S. Health care system the worst among industrialized countries for the 5th time in a row. The ranking were based quality of care, access to doctors, and equality through the system. On the plus side U.S. health care rated number 11. We were rated behind U.K., Switzerland, France, Australia, Germany, Canada, Sweden, New Zealand, Norway, Netherlands.

 

[Torpedo]

How about


WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Nothing, stick to the topic please.

Not really off topic. We seem to be discussing golf among other things. Other topics on the thread appear to be Federal Government with various degrees of blame to both political parties, the state of health care in the United States, and Mac telling us that trickle down economics don't work.... again Usually to get a conversation this lively requires some alcohol.

 

[MacNfries]

You say "as I recall...Obama offered a 3 for 1." If you want to review who offered what and who reneged on what, read Bob Woodard's [that ole right wing Repub of Watergate fame] book on that episode.

But I am not leaving this country. We will survive whatever happens, and eventually partly correct the problem. The sorry thing is that there will be a lot of suffering by a lot of people first. The suffering could have been avoided.

This actually gives a rather accurate, detailed account as to one of (there were 3 actually) grand deals, but all included a tax increase of some kind. Thus Repubs were only willing to negotiate a deal IF it didn't include a tax increase ... kind of one sided but it made Norquest happy. And they thought Obama would cave if they threatened to crash the economy, and did eventually damage the country's credit rating. But, these things didn't happen that way, actually, just ask any Republican.
http://swampland.time.com/2011/07/2...ama-and-boehners-second-failed-grand-bargain/
And, I've never said the past "tax & spend" Democrats was an appropriate approach to resolving the debt. Neither party is all that concerned about resolving the debt, just gaining power. It's interesting, however, to now hear some of the Republicans, like Mitch McConnell, now try to take credit for the improving economy by saying its improving because of their efforts to stop Obama. More Republican dung ...
I just thank god they didn't win the presidency in '08 or '12 or we'd still have wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably in Libya and/or Iran.

 

[chairman.mao]

it's not propaganda. it's history. i know Hollywood and official reporters want to make us believe America is always good and Russians (once again) are the bad boys but this is not true.
in that case Putin is right and Obama is the bad boy....

The thing is Russia as China, and the Chinese have the POWER and MONEY in this world....... the US are isolated themselves..... look at the AIIB Bank... there will be no more western dominance player, the future is in China for economical anyway, and the chinese and russians always VETO at the UN

 

[falcondfw69]

If you have deep enough pockets there are some very cutting edge treatments available in the United States. However across the board health care in this country simply isn't that good. A few years back WHO (World Health organization) rated it 191 members. The United States was 1 in expenditures per capita and 38th in quality of care. We were between Costa Rica and Slovenia. A 2014 report by the Common Wealth Fund rated the U.S. Health care system the worst among industrialized countries for the 5th time in a row. The ranking were based quality of care, access to doctors, and equality through the system. On the plus side U.S. health care rated number 11. We were rated behind U.K., Switzerland, France, Australia, Germany, Canada, Sweden, New Zealand, Norway, Netherlands.

Well, I have never agreed with the UN on just about anything and I strongly disagree with them on this. People are not flown OUT of the USA for treatment of various diseases. They are flown INTO the USA. There is a reason for that.
Around the year 1900, the average life expectancy was what? 50? And it is now what? almost 80? Do you seriously think ANY country around the world had half as much to do with that as the USA? I am not trying to put down other countries, but seriously, look at who invented what in the 20th century.

 

[Torpedo]

Well, I have never agreed with the UN on just about anything and I strongly disagree with them on this. People are not flown OUT of the USA for treatment of various diseases. They are flown INTO the USA. There is a reason for that.
Around the year 1900, the average life expectancy was what? 50? And it is now what? almost 80? Do you seriously think ANY country around the world had half as much to do with that as the USA? I am not trying to put down other countries, but seriously, look at who invented what in the 20th century.

Did you notice that one of the criteria that the Common Wealth Fund used was "equality through the system". An acquaintance of mine's wife had cluster headaches. It is my understanding that these can last for extended periods of time, sometimes weeks. However they are low income and rely on Medicaid for health care. Medicaid would only pay for three days of hospitalization for a Migraine. They apparently have lumped all types of headaches together. As with Migraines apparently Cluster Headache patients suffers from nausea and vomiting. He told me that in a severe attack it sometimes took a week or more to get her nausea under control. If this happened to me I get a nice room for as long as it takes to get me fixed. Not much in the way of equal access.

 

[Torpedo]

Read an article this morning that got me thinking.
It was about people that have served significant time in prison then are exonerated and proven to be innocent.
My life by most measures has been more successful than most. But when I was 18 there was nothing I can think of that would have make me stand out that would have given any indication of my future success.
So you have a young person that is convicted and spends most of their adult life in prison how do you determine fair compensation?
Some states will deny compensation if the person plead guilty. Quite often an accused person can not afford an attorney and end up with a public defender. The public defender generally has a pretty stiff case load so has a lot of impetus to settle cases before court. I have often wondered how many innocent people are in prison because a PD has said the risk of a trial is too high, they have a good case, or anyone one of a number of excuses and has then followed up with accept this and the death penalty is off the table, or accept this and you will have a possibility of parole, or accept this and you can be out in 6 years instead of 30 years. And if the person is later exonerated they are denied compensation because they plead guilty. Then there are a number of states that feel no compensation is owed.
Thoughts?

 

[Torpedo]

I accidentally clicked the wrong thing to reply to-meant to reference one of Torpedos' golf stories. But yessir! I will behave from now on. Glad to see who is in charge here. Another case of the morons running the asylum.

We probably should have you flogged at some point as an example

 

[falcondfw69]

Did you notice that one of the criteria that the Common Wealth Fund used was "equality through the system". An acquaintance of mine's wife had cluster headaches. It is my understanding that these can last for extended periods of time, sometimes weeks. However they are low income and rely on Medicaid for health care. Medicaid would only pay for three days of hospitalization for a Migraine. They apparently have lumped all types of headaches together. As with Migraines apparently Cluster Headache patients suffers from nausea and vomiting. He told me that in a severe attack it sometimes took a week or more to get her nausea under control. If this happened to me I get a nice room for as long as it takes to get me fixed. Not much in the way of equal access.

Torp,
You know me. We have talked often enough before. I am truly sorry for your friends. That is an EXTREMELY difficult situation to be in. How do I know? I suffer from migraines at least a couple times per month.
When I have a migraine, depending on how bad, the whole world stops. I don't want to see my *******. I don't want to talk to people. Nothing. Hell, I don't want to exist. It hurts so much. People with normal headaches, I think the only way I can describe it is: watch "Despicable Me" 1 or 2. Imagine 50 or so of those minions inside of your head. ALL of them with sledgehammers!!! ALL of them wanting to be outside of your head!!!!!! THAT is how much it hurts!!! (HEY MAC! A little help with one of your crazy cartoons would be REALLY appreciated right now!!! lol.). Yes. It is that serious. The nausea. The pain. You do not want life to go on.
And honestly, I appreciate the sentiments of what you say. But to tell the truth? There just is no "fixing this". It is what it is. We deal with it because we have to.