Death Penalty: For or Against

[MacNfries]

There's that ego talking again. Now, its how much money we make ... quite immature, trivial, and not a concern of mine unless you didn't pay taxes on all that money. Just listen to yourself, Torp. I'm actually surprised you would say something like that. You might want to get your little problem checked out. Could possibly be one of the reasons you're a divorced man.

My wife and I are blessed with sufficient income (we're a 2 income family) to provide ourselves a "happy" and "healthy" life, provide for our 2 wonderful children, etc. We want for nothing. And, we give thanks for that every, single day.

When's the last time you've gotten involved in some charity work? It'll make you feel really good about yourself in a way you probably don't feel right now. Just a suggestion ... Mac
Money ... .....

 

[Torpedo]

There's that ego talking again. Now, its how much money we make ... quite immature, trivial, and not a concern of mine unless you didn't pay taxes on all that money. Just listen to yourself, Torp. I'm actually surprised you would say something like that. You might want to get your little problem checked out. Could possibly be one of the reasons you're a divorced man.

My wife and I are blessed with sufficient income (we're a 2 income family) to provide ourselves a "happy" and "healthy" life, provide for our 2 wonderful children, etc. We want for nothing. And, we give thanks for that every, single day.

When's the last time you've gotten involved in some charity work? It'll make you feel really good about yourself in a way you probably don't feel right now. Just a suggestion ... Mac
Money ... View attachment 605517 .....View attachment 605518

Mac I am not divorced my wife died from a heart attack a few years ago. Given your overall attitude I would imagine you will find that funny. I have done and continue to do significant work in the community.

We raised two ******* put them both through college and my wife was able to be a home maker and be there for our daughters.

Ego? I would say yes I do. People that don't have some ego usually don't go far in life. I figured out a long time ago that if you don't believe in yourself no one else will.

Bother you that a black man has had more success than you?

 

[hillary999]

I believe there are not good but reasonable reasons to ******* someone Ie self defence, and too many things that can go wrong with testing a crime that death penalty is not a good route unless it absolute 100% and heinous. ******* is simply taking a life not by accident, and there are real reasons to do it. but i think that a baby molester should be killed hands down, can't fix fucked in the head.

 

[MacNfries]

Bother you that a black man has had more success than you?

Torp, I can certainly share in the sadness of your loss; I can't possibly imagine the mental pain I would have if something was to happen to a member of my own family. But to say I would laugh ... Torp, that's ridiculous and only shows you just how little you do know of me. I try to live a Christian life, and find no "joy" in someone else's loss. I joke quite a bit on this site, but as my wife often says ... "you're an old softie" inside. When I said "if you had a heart attack, don't expect mouth-to-mouth from me!"... I was joking, Torp ... you took me serious because you wanted to take me serious. You obviously know as little about me as I kno about you.

The ego thing, though, you are so misguided and wrong. There's a big difference between "pride" and "ego"; ego is the antonym of pride. I show you yet another example of your "ego" spilling out above ... again wanting to "best" me by bragging of your success. You just seem not to get it. Maybe its just the black man's abundance of testosterone and embedded desire to "best" the white man, but it's you with the hate, Torp, and you're just too stubborn to admit it to yourself. This thing with the boxing ... just your way of indirectly saying you'd love the opportunity to beat the crap out of me. This thing with your making more money ... just your way to say you're more powerful. Now you accuse me of what you've said above ... thinking that I would CARE or am jealous about your success because you're a black man! Maybe a better word to describe your delusional comments would be "vain" . My wife and I earn a combined 6-figure income that allows us to want for "nothing", but material gain/wealth isn't what's important. Your value system may be a bit screwed up. I really feel sad for your hatred, however, as it actually affects you, personally, in a lot of negative ways. For one, it adds to the stress on your heart. So, if you won't address your ego for any other reason, please address it for medical reasons. I really would hate to think I contributed, in any way, to you having a heart attack.
Bless you, man!

 

[Torpedo]

Torp, I can certainly share in the sadness of your loss; I can't possibly imagine the mental pain I would have if something was to happen to a member of my own family. But to say I would laugh ... Torp, that's ridiculous and only shows you just how little you do know of me. I try to live a Christian life, and find no "joy" in someone else's loss. I joke quite a bit on this site, but as my wife often says ... "you're an old softie" inside. When I said "if you had a heart attack, don't expect mouth-to-mouth from me! I was joking, Torp ... you took me serious because you wanted to take me serious. You obviously know as little about me as I kno about you.

The ego thing, though, you are so misguided and wrong. There's a big difference between "pride" and "ego"; I show you yet another example of your "ego" spilling out above ... again wanting to "best" me by bragging of your success. You just seem not to get it. It's you with the hate, Torp, and you're just too stubborn to admit it to yourself. This thing with the boxing ... just your way of indirectly saying you'd love the opportunity to beat the crap out of me. This thing with making more money ... just a way to say you're more powerful. Now you accuse me of what you've said above ... thinking that I would CARE or am jealous about your success because you're a black man! Maybe a better word to describe your delusional comments would be "vain" . One thing for sure, your value system is all screwed up. I really feel sad for your hatred, however, as it actually affects the hater a lot more than the one being hated. And, it adds to the stress on your heart. So, if you won't address your ego for any other reason, do it for medical reasons. I really would hate to think I contributed, in any way, to you having a heart attack.
Bless you, man!

I do find your approach interesting. You would run around the ring hoping I had a heart attack. If you played baseball in your youth did you try to get a hit or did you hope you would get walked? The nice thing with boxing, and other contact sports is that the winner is generally clearly defined. You are likely around 20 years younger than me. There is no guarantee I would prevail, but I certainly would be willing to risk it. I could have a heart attack, you might be a better boxer than me but I think I would win.

I really don't hate you mac, I find you amusing. Address my ego for medical reasons? That is a good one. Hate to tell you but ******* pressure is good, cholesterol isn't perfect but not bad. My cardiologist says if he didn't know that I had a heart attack he wouldn't suspect any cardiac history from a routine examination. Seems that I am a happy well adjusted person.

I was successful at a time when a lot of minorities black and others were not. I had to be twice as good to get half as far and I got a lot farther than most people. Nobody handed me a damn thing I worked hard. I would agree that I have a lot of ego, most successful people do. Vain would be inaccurate, I have always realized that there were some things I wasn't that good at so I surrounded myself with people that filled in the gaps, and I took care of them. Not really the behavior of a vain person. The only secret to getting along with you is simply to agree with you. And you call me vain.

Of course I want be the best at anything I do. Going back to my early years I always pursued getting A's, getting a C or even a B I considered a failure. I never could understand anyone that was happy being average.

You seem to be one that is terribly upset. It seems at least from my point of view that you are engaging transference. You seem to be trying to pin your emotional baggage onto me. The "off topic" section is for thinking men and women. Maybe you would be happier with the "General Discussion" area. If you going to engage in a battle of wits you should at least have some ammunition. Cute graphics and the "Caps" key only go so far.

 

[tasmaniandevil]

Recent Texas Execution: Did An Innocent Man Fall Through Death Penalty Procedural Cracks? | Death Penalty Information Center

I hope he was lying for 30 years...

 

[Torpedo]

Recent Texas Execution: Did An Innocent Man Fall Through Death Penalty Procedural Cracks? | Death Penalty Information Center

I hope he was lying for 30 years...

I have come to wonder how many innocent people have we executed? An interesting feature of our justice system is that you need to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But after you are convicted overwhelming evidence is required to reopen a case. To certain degree for non capital cases I can understand that point of view after all we have a clogged justice system and retrying every case isn't practical. However when you are killing a person I don't think "probably the right person" is good enough.

 

[Drillher4me]

I am a liberal and I am black. So most of you will be shocked to know I am for the Death Penalty. I won't argue the points that they have been arguing for years so i'll just leave it up to a poll to find out what some of you think.

I am a liberal and I am black. So most of you will be shocked to know I am for the Death Penalty. I won't argue the points that they have been arguing for years so i'll just leave it up to a poll to find out what some of you think.

There are undoubtably situations where I'd be tempted to impose a death penalty, such as mass murders, baby killers, etc., where the evidence against them is "absolute"! In other cases I'm off the opinion that it's best that, hypothetically speaking, it's better that 100 murders live behind bars than one (1) innocent man die! God only knows how many innocents have paid the ultimate price for crimes they didn't commit. Recent cases within the U.S. attest to this, for example, the case of the black man convicted of *******, sentenced to death, then commuted to life without parole then, based on DNA evidence, freed after 30 years in prison! May God grant the unjustly convicted and executed eternal peace!

 

[Dpad]

For it. May not lower crime, but some people, *******, serial killers, pedophiles deserve death. Plain and simple

 

[jism_jim]

I have come to wonder how many innocent people have we executed? An interesting feature of our justice system is that you need to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But after you are convicted overwhelming evidence is required to reopen a case. To certain degree for non capital cases I can understand that point of view after all we have a clogged justice system and retrying every case isn't practical. However when you are killing a person I don't think "probably the right person" is good enough.

Then I have to wonder how many GOOD people would still be alive if they had executed many individuals that were released back into society that DID ******* innocent people. It works both ways.

 

[easyuk]

Should the Policeman caught on camera in Charelston shooting an unarmed man in the back be executed?

That is as close to 100% proof as is possible I think...

 

[Torpedo]

Then I have to wonder how many GOOD people would still be alive if they had executed many individuals that were released back into society that DID ******* innocent people. It works both ways.

I haven't run across a statistic for the number of released murderers that killed again.

One of the problems is being sure you got the right person. Over the last few years a lot of people including some on death row have been exonerated through DNA or other evidence. In an imperfect system life without parole makes a lot more sense than executing a few innocent and calling it the cost of justice. We have come to realize that eye witness testimony isn't always reliable.

 

[MacNfries]

Should the Policeman caught on camera in Charelston shooting an unarmed man in the back be executed?

That is as close to 100% proof as is possible I think...

Not necessarily. That situation had aggravating circumstances. The victim challenged the policeman, and then chose to run, disobeying officer's instructions. Did the officer over-react, absolutely, and should be justifiably punished. But the death penalty ... I hardly think so.

 

[easyglider]

Wow...this is really an interesting topic and views from many users besides only reading about women, men or couple only looking for BBC men.

It's also interesting and fascinating to hear Mac and Torpedo each one expressing their feelings and opinion without killing or cursing each other out (Even though the confrontation is there) ....hmmm Ego, Money and Vain.

I love to read intelligent discussions that we all may learn something but not necessarily we have to agree or disagree. Any more posts will be appreciated. I think I started to like this forum

 

[Torpedo]

Not necessarily. That situation had aggravating circumstances. The victim challenged the policeman, and then chose to run, disobeying officer's instructions. Did the officer over-react, absolutely, and should be justifiably punished. But the death penalty ... I hardly think so.

Most homicides are crimes of passion. Somebody loses control and someone else gets dead. It really shouldn't make any difference if the person doing the killing is in uniform or not.

A few months ago I had lunch with a friend that is a a Circuit Court judge. I threw out the comment that people like him, prosecutors and police should be held to a higher standard than the general public. I was expecting to get into a little debate with him. He agreed with me. He pointed out that he has a lot of power that went with his job as does anyone else in law enforcement. He stressed how important he felt it was that people in these positions of power have a squeaky clean image otherwise the public would loose faith. And that seems to be the case in a number of places around the country

 

[easyuk]

Not necessarily. That situation had aggravating circumstances. The victim challenged the policeman, and then chose to run, disobeying officer's instructions. Did the officer over-react, absolutely, and should be justifiably punished. But the death penalty ... I hardly think so.

So under these circumstances it's "obvious" that the death penalty should not be imposed but a gang member doing the same thing to another criminal should "obviously" be executed?

I'm sure I was accused of giving politician's responses before :-D

I don't believe I did ever get a reply as to why you (plural) would want your state to ******* its citizens. Protect, most certainly, but once incarcerated isn't that task complete? I would suspect that the statistics for prison escape is vanishingly small (but too lazy to check).

Is it for revenge, then just say so. That's a different argument to justify.

I'm just a soft, liberal, "socialist" Brit though. No guns, no fear. Yet another thread?

 

[MacNfries]

So under these circumstances it's "obvious" that the death penalty should not be imposed but a gang member doing the same thing to another criminal should "obviously" be executed? ....

I don't think that the officer, who shot that black man in the back, initiated that arrest with the intent on killing him. When gang members ******* each other it is for that exact reason ... to eliminate the challenging gang. It's that period of time a person has to plan their killing, and consider the consequences of their action. That's called premeditation, easyuk. I imagine, IF the justice system decides to do a psych evaluation on that police officer, it may possibly uncover racial prejudice, and may find that he was unfit to even be a police officer. However, due to the actions of the victim, leading up to the actual killing, I can't see any court convicting that officer of ******* ... possibly voluntary manslaughter. By resisting the orders of an officer, a victim becomes an accomplice to the end results, whatever that result turns out to be. Once the officer's adrenaline kicked in, his actions became as much reactive as active.

I don't believe I did ever get a reply as to why you (plural) would want your state to ******* its citizens. Protect, most certainly, but once incarcerated isn't that task complete? I would suspect that the statistics for prison escape is vanishingly small (but too lazy to check). ..... Is it for revenge, then just say so. That's a different argument to justify.

I imagine some of my agreement in having a death penalty is "final justice for the victim & families". We have many people sitting on death row who are there on circumstantial evidence ... being in the wrong place at the wrong time, fingerprints, dna, etc. They shouldn't be there. The death penalty should be reserved for those where clear proof is that they did the killing, AND had the opportunity to consider the consequences of their action.

I'm just a soft, liberal, "socialist" Brit though. No guns, no fear.

Gun regulation & gun laws? I own 5 guns, myself (2 shotguns, 2 pistols, 1 rifle), but I don't own or see a need to own a automatic weapon. My 2 pistols are registered because the law says they need to be registered. Personally, I see a need in restricting the type of weapons our citizens can have, and believe in stricter gun laws such as background checks, waiting periods, etc, but the NRA owns congress. We'll probably never get the regulations & restrictions that is logical for the majority of our population. But, I most definitely believe in my right to own guns.
......Mac

 

[Torpedo]

I don't think that the officer, who shot that black man in the back, initiated that arrest with the intent on killing him. When gang members ******* each other it is for that exact reason ... to eliminate the challenging gang. It's that period of time a person has to plan their killing, and consider the consequences of their action. That's called premeditation, easyuk. I imagine, IF the justice system decides to do a psych evaluation on that police officer, it may possibly uncover racial prejudice, and may find that he was unfit to even be a police officer. However, due to the actions of the victim, leading up to the actual killing, I can't see any court convicting that officer of ******* ... possibly voluntary manslaughter. By resisting the orders of an officer, a victim becomes an accomplice to the end results, whatever that result turns out to be. Once the officer's adrenaline kicked in, his actions became as much reactive as active.

There are a considerable range of definitions of premeditation. In my home state of Wisconsin if the courts determine that in commission of the act you intend the person to die then it is premeditated. If you go someplace with no intention of doing violence and you end up instigating a violent act, be it with a gun, a baseball bat, your fists or any other means and the courts determine that in the heat of the act you wanted the person to die it is premeditated ******* and that life w/o parole

 

[Torpedo]

Gun regulation & gun laws? I own 5 guns, myself (2 shotguns, 2 pistols, 1 rifle), but I don't own or see a need to own a automatic weapon. My 2 pistols are registered because the law says they need to be registered. Personally, I see a need in restricting the type of weapons our citizens can have, and believe in stricter gun laws such as background checks, waiting periods, etc, but the NRA owns congress. We'll probably never get the regulations & restrictions that is logical for the majority of our population. But, I most definitely believe in my right to own guns.

Technically you can own fully automatic weapons but the restrictions and requirements are so great that private ownership is impractical. Plus in the licensing you have to agree that the government can come and seize the weapons if they feel they are at risk. I only have a couple of guns. A shotgun and the weapon I carry. I have a concealed carry permit and yes I do walk about armed. In theory restricting ownership sounds good but in reality the big problem is the bad guys don't obey the law. I hired a young man a couple of years ago to do some work around some property that I own. He had been out of prison for a short time and I figured giving him a chance might make a difference (it did). In a conversation one afternoon the subject of guns came up. He asked me I wanted any. He told me that if I had the money he could get me anything I wanted. I declined. Based on his other actions and other conversations I tend to believe him.

 

[easyuk]

I guess that the problem in the US is that the genie is already out of the bottle. Your country is awash with weapons. However, just because something is difficult, doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

For the record, I used to shoot as an RAF cadet to quite a high standard. Target rifles and assault weapons so I am not inherently fearful of them. However, I don't think that the vast majority of people should be allowed anywhere near them. I have the same opinion about cars too though