Politics, Politics, Politics

[Torpedo]

that's just a cop out...... you knew quite a while ago that they were running less than 10%.. so if you did it was a wasted vote and you knew it.... and for all those that said they would not vote for nor support the man... 95% of republicans did vote for him

Wasted vote? I think not. I think the Democratic and Republican parties both need to be replaced. The Democratic party is in serious trouble. They have lost over 1,000 seat in local, state and federal government since Obama took office. I expect something along that line for the Republicans in the next few year.

Trump is really a wild card, literally. He is a businessman but not a particularly good one. The midterms are going to be nearly as important as the recent election. I would like to see the Libertarians make some inroads. What is required is that the people of this country have the courage to make a real change, and not elect someone based on the novelty of it like we have been d0ing.

I would like to stay and banter with you but my golf clubs are calling. My favorite local course is officially closed but the owners are letting several of the regulars in for a final 9

 

[Torpedo]

sorry hate to piss you off I know you people on the right hold Reagan in high esteem and get pissed when people talk bad about him... but facts are facts... I wrote none of those articles....you do a search for bad presidents or the corruption of Reagan.... the list is quite long on articles!

I can find articles that tell me the earth is flat

 

[Torpedo]

what was the number when he took office.... again juggling numbers... the country had just got out of one war... came home with no jobs to go to.... he got that down and got people taken care of best he could.... people must have been happy with what he was doing... elected 3 times... your right wingers had to put in term limits or who knows

At the highest it was around 30%, but there wasn't a lot of records kept. Bottom line he didn't succeed in fixing the economy, He bought votes with social programs and did great PR

 

[subhub174014]

I firmly believe that Reagan and Truman are the only ones that sat in the Oval Office that actually put the country first

not if you read the article on social security!... he flat lied to congress and got on tv and lied to the American people... knowing full well it was to cover up the fact that his policy did not work... plus look at all the scandals and other lies he was into... after all over 100 people in his administration under investigation... 22 served time... he was a crook from the git go

got to wonder about Trump also... nailed on some campaign issues yesterday.. and it's not good// plus he has a lot of other coals in the fire... and graham asking for an investigation to his ties to Russia

When Clinton finished the trade deal, he wasn't handing out much in the way teem spirit Kudos.

well i'll agree there... it was a joint thing.... he took the kudo's... and now he gets the heat!

One of the things that he did know that not too many other people knew was that he was going to get around 25 million dollars from Chinese interests for his second term reelection

that is not a proven statement.... just more Clinton bashing.... he does deserve the bad press for the trade deal... but unlike Reagan. he thought it was a good deal for the country... as did most in congress!

Wasted vote? I think not. I think the Democratic and Republican parties both need to be replaced

well I disagree there... all of the combined 3rd party didn't equal 10%... SO IT WAS A GO NOWHERE VOTE

I agree with you on that... the right is jumping for joy right now with all kinds of big plans... but it wasn't their party that got them those votes! and yes the Dems need to take a serious look at themselves.... part of what killed Hillary was they just take a lot of people for granted... so people made a statement!

I expect something along that line for the Republicans in the next few year.

I agree when people wake up and see how much nthe right has fucked them... there will be a big swing the other way next term! but yes it wouldn't hurt to have more than 2 parties... hell Sweden I think had 11 people on the ballot there.... but here the third party doesn't start campaigning until a few months before the election and a lot have already made up their mind.... they either need to get in when the others do or stay out!

trump is just like Reagan... had the gift to gab and tell people what they want to hear... plus he had a team of scoundrels that helped.. and Russia I see today he is betraying some of his team... with him and Schummer being friends... it's hard to tell just what he will do
his campaign statements were scary... hopefully they were just mind food for the "droids"... he could be a miracle worker... maybe... but I think congress will shut him down if he doesn't trade tit for tat!

The midterms are going to be nearly as important as the recent election.

I think by then people will have woke up.... or he might just be a miracle worker.. doubt that though... I still say the main issue was Ryan and McConnell... I could more than live with Trump.. if people hadn't given those 2 a blank check!

I can find articles that tell me the earth is flat

closed mind?... say it aint so! I will admit that you find a whacko article now and then.... but there are way to many from different sources not to believe

Bottom line he didn't succeed in fixing the economy, He bought votes with social programs and did great PR

he helped in a time of need... remember the gov didn't have a lot of money then either... just ended a war!

me to... got to take care of a couple orders... right away.. it's why I get this job!

 

[subhub174014]

funny all this started was because Ryan said he plans to do away with social security and medicare because it was broke....so I started digging and...... didn't like Reagan to begin with... but it all took off from there.... everywhere I looked .. it started with Reagan!

 

[TwoBiFour]

I like what I am reading so far,

10 things to know about President-elect Trump's tax plans



1. Corporate tax
Tax rates would be capped at 15 percent. Most incentive deductions and credits would be eliminated, with the exception of the research-and-development tax credit. Manufacturers would lose their deduction for interest expense but would be able to expense immediately all of their investment costs. The corporate alternative minimum tax (AMT) would be repealed.

The AMT is wrong IMO. So is the Estimated tax payment.

2. Individual tax
Because of the increase to the standard deduction discussed below, individuals with adjusted gross income (AGI) up to $15,000 and married filing joint (MFJ) couples with AGI up to $30,000 would pay no tax. MFJ taxpayers would pay a 12 percent rate if their AGI remains under $75,000, 25 percent if their AGI falls between $75,000 and $225,000, and 33 percent if AGI exceeds $225,000. Carried interests would be taxed as ordinary income, and the individual AMT would be repealed.

I said the same a while ago - if you make 30K or less you shouldn't be paying tax.

3. Capital gains
Tax rates on capital gains would be capped at the current rate of 20 percent.
4. Estate taxes
Estate taxes would be repealed, but capital gains exceeding $10 million that are held until death would be subject to tax.

Estate Taxes are simply a double taxation anyways.

5. International tax
A one-time deemed repatriation tax of 10 percent would be levied on corporations with cash held overseas.The deferral of corporate income earned abroad would be repealed.

I think this needs to be a bit higher, more like 25%

6. Exemptions, deductions and credits
Itemized deductions would be capped at $100,000 for single filers and $200,000 for MFJ. The standard deduction would increase to $15,000 for single filers and $30,000 for MFJ, and personal exemptions would be eliminated.

Just put the standard deductions a bit higher and take all the Itemized BS. Never figured out why someone who has more should pay less.

7. Net investment income tax
Repeal.
8. Affordable Care Act
Repeal and replace.

His replacement
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...wn-jewels-of-trump-care/ar-AAkqMJf?li=BBnb7Kz

I haven't looked it over fully yet to comment much, but the savings plan makes a bit more sense as savings incur interest and I'm not paying for what I don't use - This past 2 years I have paid ~$400.00 for insurance per month. I have been to the doctor twice for a total of about $250.00. so where did that other $9,350.00 go?

9. Childcare: Business
A credit for offering onsite childcare would increase to $500,000, and the recapture rules would be reduced to five years. Direct employee subsidies would be taxable to the employee.
10. Childcare costs
An above-the-line deduction for childcare for up to four children or elderly parents would be capped at state average costs. Stay-at-home parents would have a similar deduction. Spending rebates would also be available through the earned-income tax credit.

These plans make much more sense than just "Raise tax on the top 1%!! (and put it in my pocket yeah!)

 

[Torpedo]

that is not a proven statement.... just more Clinton bashing.... he does deserve the bad press for the trade deal... but unlike Reagan. he thought it was a good deal for the country... as did most in congress

It didn't get proven because he won the election and was able to quash the problem. Remember this is a man that with a straight face told the American people that when he got his dick sucked he wasn't participating

 

[Torpedo]

well I disagree there... all of the combined 3rd party didn't equal 10%... SO IT WAS A GO NOWHERE VOTE

Not really the first Republican president was Lincoln however the party was founded in 1854 and was an offshoot of the now defunct Whig party. This election was really the first election where the Libertarians have made any kind of a splash in the media. The Democrats have suffered enormous losses in the local, states and federal election over the last few election cycles. The time is ripe for the Libertarians to make some serious inroads. Both major parties are very adept at keeping any third party opposition in check but I see the tide starting to turn.

 

[subhub174014]

Remember this is a man that with a straight face told the American people that when he got his dick sucked he wasn't participating

so he got a blow job.... big deal... you haven't had one?... and funny at the time the right was doing all this digging at the urging of congress.... Gingrich himself was having an affair... and so was Ken Star the man doing all the digging...

BUT that in no way was intentionally fucking the country like your man Reagan.... He knew it at the time... even before hand... went in front of congress and on TV... knowing full well the money was not going into social security....
instead to pay for the huge tax cuts he gave big biz.... making the middle class pay for his fuck-up.....

under Clinton which the right hates to admit.... blow job or not... lie or not... the country did well the economy was good!... he made a bad trade deal.... that all of congress was for... but it was his deal... and he fucked us... UNKNOWINGLY....

Big difference there!

 

[subhub174014]

Not really the first Republican president was Lincoln

actually if you look it up... Lincoln was an independent!

 

[Torpedo]

View attachment 1039221

I remember a number of years back New York City had a serious economic crisis, one of New York's officials commented that Manhattan had originally been bought for a few dollars worth of beads and maybe they should sell it back to the Native Americans for the original purchase price. A local Native American tribe said they weren't interested

A side bar to this is that the Native Americans that accepted the payment were just passing through, they weren't indigenous to the area.

 

[subhub174014]

The time is ripe for the Libertarians to make some serious inroads. Both major parties are very adept at keeping any third party opposition in check but I see the tide starting to turn.

I will admit that the 2 parties are pretty fucked up right now..... and I am willing to be there will be a lot of republican loses next election... depending on weather Trump does good or not...as for the libertarians... they have always just hung out until a few months before the election and tried to do something... they need to establish themselves more... I agree we need more than the 2 parties... but the libaterians never do anything until it is almost to late.... and Johnson made a bad showing anyway on more than one occasion... not knowing anything about other countries or world events.... the libertarians always run on just 2 or 3 major issues... never the full jar of *******.... they just need to either get in or get out

 

[Torpedo]

under Clinton which the right hates to admit.... blow job or not... lie or not... the country did well the economy was good!... he made a bad trade deal.... that all of congress was for... but it was his deal... and he fucked us... UNKNOWINGLY....

Been drinking the Kool Aid again? Clinton laid the groundwork for the loss of nearly8 million manufacturing jobs and a tripling of out trade deficit with China. He is an excellent salesman not much of an economist

 

[subhub174014]

Clinton laid the groundwork for the loss of nearly8 million manufacturing jobs and a tripling of out trade deficit with China

I already mentioned that... actually it was Bush's deal and congress... both parties that put it together... Clinton came in and finished it up ... and now He gets the blame... that's fine... but all of Wash was for the deal at the time... the right likes to forget all that and just put it on Clinton!

everytime you hear NAFTA.... all you hear is Clinton.... no mention of Bush or Gingrich or any of the others

 

[Torpedo]

I will admit that the 2 parties are pretty fucked up right now..... and I am willing to be there will be a lot of republican loses next election... depending on weather Trump does good or not...as for the libertarians... they have always just hung out until a few months before the election and tried to do something... they need to establish themselves more... I agree we need more than the 2 parties... but the libaterians never do anything until it is almost to late.... and Johnson made a bad showing anyway on more than one occasion... not knowing anything about other countries or world events.... the libertarians always run on just 2 or 3 major issues... never the full jar of *******.... they just need to either get in or get out

The biggest thing the Libertarians need is money. It's the main reason they weren't more in the public view, they didn't have the money to pay for the needed exposure. Trump on the other hand knew well how to play the media. He got hundreds of million dollars worth of free publicity.

I was surprised at how many seats the Democrat have lost. I don't rely very much on the main stream media for information. When I was working I relied on intelligence services to get information. I still subscribe to a couple. Unlike most main stream media the intelligence services only vested interest is to provide accurate unbiased information. I had been reading since the midterms of President Obama's first term the Democrats were loosing ground. I was surprised the Republicans didn't exploit that information

The midterms should be interesting. Depending on Trump's success or lack of success the Republicans could take a hard hit. If Trump has success he could easily consolidate an impenetrable base in Congress. If he isn't successful will the voters return to the Democratic party or migrate to third and fourth parties?

 

[Torpedo]

I already mentioned that... actually it was Bush's deal and congress... both parties that put it together... Clinton came in and finished it up ... and now He gets the blame... that's fine... but all of Wash was for the deal at the time... the right likes to forget all that and just put it on Clinton!

everytime you hear NAFTA.... all you hear is Clinton.... no mention of Bush or Gingrich or any of the others

And when it got passed all we heard was Bill Clinton

 

[Torpedo]

that's why it's broke!... Reaganomics... didn't work.. so he raised the amount paid into social security and instead of putting it in social security he spent it!... plus borrowed from it!.... all the others just kept using the "raise" to pay for government... until Bush and he robbed it again.... but they all took what we thought was a raise to social security to keep it afloat.... and never once did any of the money go into social security they spent it funding different things in government!..... all of this because Reagan could not face the fact that REAGANOMICS FAILED!

and now they want to do away with it rather than pay it back... even worse they want to do away with Medicare and Medicaid.... because some of it funds the aca

Like I said before I will be curious to see just who steps up a couple years from now and says I voted for Trump!

Reagan and Bush were hardly the only ones that got their fingers in the cookie jar

 

[subhub174014]

The biggest thing the Libertarians need is money. It's the main reason they weren't more in the public view, they didn't have the money to pay for the needed exposure

I will agree there but to get money you have to put a candidate up that knows what is going on... you have to have something to sell!... and the product they put out just wasn't that good

Trump on the other hand knew well how to play the media. He got hundreds of million dollars worth of free publicity.

yes he did and had years of practice at using the media... just like Reagan!

I was surprised at how many seats the Democrat have lost

Trump said he would pull people in with him... and he did... way to many just voted a straight ticket!... and that hurt the dems... but I think some will wake up next term... plus a lot turn out for the pres election and not that many for midterms... so we will see!

President Obama's first term the Democrats were loosing ground

again... people just don't pay that much attention... they just see their pocketbokk instead of looking to see why!

The midterms should be interesting. Depending on Trump's success or lack of success the Republicans could take a hard hit. If Trump has success he could easily consolidate an impenetrable base in Congress. If he isn't successful will the voters return to the Democratic party or migrate to third and fourth parties?

nothing to argue there... I agree... he will either be a big savior or a big loser!... time will tell.... not thrilled with any of his nominations so far though... well I don't mind Priebus... he is pretty much a straight republican... and smooth talker... but not an asshole like some he is putting out there... damn I would hate to see Giuliani be a damned secretary of state... that guy is a complete idiot... although I think Trump knows that... but he rewards loyalty!.... Romney is a far better pick on that one.... Cotton...NOT GOOD!

 

[subhub174014]

And when it got passed all we heard was Bill Clinton

well he was pres at the time and it was a big deal to all of congress... but yes he took all the credit... so he should take the ass whipping!

 

[subhub174014]

Reagan and Bush were hardly the only ones that got their fingers in the cookie jar

wrong again ... damn don't you read any of the articles on here?

I posted the facts on that!... and we have already discussed this.... every pres since Reagan has used the money for gov... everyone!... But Reagan and Greenspan set that up to rob it at
the expense of the middle class... and not only did he take that money we put in there for a raise... he robbed almost a trillion out of it...... then along comes Bush with all his wars and he already went through the money that Clinton had put in the bank... and he robbed another trillion.... the others just used our pay increase for gov tax breaks to the wealthy... but those 2 also robbed a bunch out of it!.... Obama at least used that money to fund ACA... so at least some of the people got something from it

we keep arguing this issue and yet you know nothing about what you are saying other than defend your party... like I said read the article!... it does not favor any party... just the facts!