Often pivotal events in history are predicated by what at the time seems to be a minor decision.
Politics, Politics, Politics
- Thread starter falcondfw69
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Here's the book. Put a .com at the end.
www.shatteredswordbook
All of us who loved to read about the war in the Pacific has heard and taken as gospel, the myths of what happened at Midway. Read the book, and you will shake your head in amazement.
www.shatteredswordbook
All of us who loved to read about the war in the Pacific has heard and taken as gospel, the myths of what happened at Midway. Read the book, and you will shake your head in amazement.
"Tuskegee airman Lt. C.D. “Lucky” Lester of the 332nd Fighter Group scores his second of three victories over German aircraft, not only in a single day, but in less than five minutes."
I nominate this painting as an fine example of our black aviators cuckolding a member of the master race. Nothing like shooting American lead up the ass of a nazi.
I personally love the P38 as being something futuristic. Even the P47 has a bit of beauty as being a BBW of the airwar. But the P51, that's a fucking hot rod!!!
I nominate this painting as an fine example of our black aviators cuckolding a member of the master race. Nothing like shooting American lead up the ass of a nazi.
I personally love the P38 as being something futuristic. Even the P47 has a bit of beauty as being a BBW of the airwar. But the P51, that's a fucking hot rod!!!
"My granddaddy was a rated man, a boiler tender, before World War I. The Navy had seven or eight hundred rated black men back then. After the war they only enlisted us as mess stewards, and you had to be from the South. They figured Southern black men knew their place. I had to move to Charleston to get in the fuckin' Navy!" -Time and Tide by Thomas Fleming, a realistic novel about naval battles and life aboard a Navy ship in the World War II Pacific Theatre
I see several of them every year at the Chino Planes of Fame airshow.
Note the above Corsair is a Marine plane.
My granddad was best friends with a decorated WWII and Korean Navy fighter pilot. I knew him well, since we saw him often. He bragged that the Marines did not fly and land on aircraft carrier decks. He claimed, always with a wry smile, that the best pilots had to land and take off on carrier decks. He loved to start a fight in bars. "Here's to the Marines, who have been guarding the gates of our country for xxx years, and we have not lost a g----- gate yet!
The third or fourth time I asked what was outstanding about Marine pilots, he finally was candid. He said all Marines went through the same basic training, and the future Marine pilots bonded with the grunts. Marine pilots would fly as close as needed to the ground and thus anti-aircraft fire to help fellow Marines on the ground. Navy pilots like us did risky enough things, he said, but we were not going to do what those crazy Marines would do. The aircraft the two branches flew were also built differently, too.
Ted Williams, Hall of Fame baseball player, was both a Marine fighter pilot in WW II and also Korea. If he had not lost almost five baseball seasons, most likely he would have broken Babe Ruth's home run record.
If I recall, the main differences in those corsairs were the Navy planes wings folded up, and the engines had a bit more HP to get them off the flight decks. Anyways, my point wasn't to get into the types of corsairs, but simply that they, generally, were beautiful planes. My grandfather & 1 great uncle were both army and fought in Europe, under Patton. I had another great uncle that was a prisoner MP in the Pacific, and he said the Japanese prisoners they brought in were either all shot to hell or as polite as could be.
History is often subject ti interpretation. I had the opportunity a few years ago to spend some time in the former Soviet Union's holding in eastern Europe. I was really surprised at the version's of WWII battles I was told by some of the participants. Was what I was told accurate? I really don't know, I just know I was told things that were different from what I read in the history books.
I doubt a single work about the Battle of Midway will significantly change my mind about the battle. In Operation Vengeance when we killed Yamamoto there significant disagreement among the participants as to who did what and what actually happened. This was an operation that was carried out by very few people. From a practical standpoint I tend to accept (1) first hand accounts from participants (2) the general consensus of the written history. And often the waters remain murky. When I come across a single work that disagrees with the majority of the historical record I tend to dismiss it. I have put the book on my reading list and I expect I will read it in the next year. I am within short driving to a few university libraries and Wisconsin has an excellent public library system so I doubt I will have little problem securing a copy to read
Read it. His sources are the Japanese Naval Histories and Operations Reports that have been available to researchers for decades.
Myth #1 - A fallacious 5 minutes.
Myth #2 - The IJN carrier decks were crowded with planes.
Myth #3 - The IJN air groups were shattered with losses.
Myth #4 - The USN torpedo squadrons lured the Japanese fighters down low thus freeing the dive bombers to come in unmolested.
The only thing i can comment on at this point is item 4. The torpedo planes didn't lure the Japanese anyplace. They attacked and they got their asses shot off. I believe only two or three torpedo air crewmembers survived.
I am not sure what you me by item 1. If you are referring to the dive bomber attacks these attacks are very short duration and exceedingly difficult to defend against once the dive has commenced.
Regardless the Japanese lost the battle, and they never won another major engagement for the duration of the war.
I am not sure what you me by item 1. If you are referring to the dive bomber attacks these attacks are very short duration and exceedingly difficult to defend against once the dive has commenced.
Regardless the Japanese lost the battle, and they never won another major engagement for the duration of the war.
They won several surface engagements in the Solomons.
Actually there were a lot of differences; but, I just did a quick research and didn't see any Corsairs specifically designated Navy or Marines. But here's what I did find:
The corsairs were modified at least 2 dozen times from the '40's to the early 50's ... some specific to the needs of the two branches. The most obvious, of course, was the tail hook for the Navy planes used. But there were a lot of other mod's for the two branches:
- cockpit seats in the Navy planes were elevated 8-10 inches up so pilots could see the flight deck as they approached.
- also, the Navy version needed specific kind of shocks to keep the planes from bouncing after they landed on a flight deck.
- Marine versions carried different ammunition and had a added steel plate around the gas tank
- several hp & engine modifications to enable the aircrafts, most used in engaging enemy aircraft, to reach much higher altitudes to gain fighter advantages
- there were both folding & fixed wing versions used; Marines mostly used the fixed winged type
Regardless of whether Midway had turned out differently, the U.S. would have inevitably defeated Japan. We just had too many advantages. And we were prepared to invade Japan [forestalled by the atom bomb] which is still rather astounding. The military planners were expecting perhaps half a million U.S. deaths upon a Japanese invasion, and that was just a guess.
In my opinion, two WW II battles more significant than Midway is Stalingrad and the Battle of Britain. If the Germans had taken Stalingrad, Moscow probably would have fallen. Russia is a big country, and the government and the resistance might have held out indefinitely, retreating westward. But, the threat of Germany losing its conquered territories and being invaded itself would have ended. Plus, the Germans encountered significant manpower and material losses at Stalingrad. Antony Beevor wrote an excellent book on this battle.
If Germany had successfully invaded England, our [U.S] success in Europe would have been much more difficult, if not impossible. Stephen Bungay wrote a great book on The Battle of Britain. Radar in southern England saved Britain. Spitfires and Hurricanes performed better than the German Messersmicdt [sp]. Germany's chance to invade Britain was lost before Germany realized it. They lost more planes than they could replace in a suitable timeframe that would have been needed for the actual invasion itself, in the softening up-phase.
If there is another website for this war stuff, let me know.
In my opinion, two WW II battles more significant than Midway is Stalingrad and the Battle of Britain. If the Germans had taken Stalingrad, Moscow probably would have fallen. Russia is a big country, and the government and the resistance might have held out indefinitely, retreating westward. But, the threat of Germany losing its conquered territories and being invaded itself would have ended. Plus, the Germans encountered significant manpower and material losses at Stalingrad. Antony Beevor wrote an excellent book on this battle.
If Germany had successfully invaded England, our [U.S] success in Europe would have been much more difficult, if not impossible. Stephen Bungay wrote a great book on The Battle of Britain. Radar in southern England saved Britain. Spitfires and Hurricanes performed better than the German Messersmicdt [sp]. Germany's chance to invade Britain was lost before Germany realized it. They lost more planes than they could replace in a suitable timeframe that would have been needed for the actual invasion itself, in the softening up-phase.
If there is another website for this war stuff, let me know.
I've read Antony Beevor's book on Stalingrad and his one about the Fall of Berlin, both excellent works. When I have more time I will share my opinion about Stalingrad.
There were some minor tactical victories but nothing strategically significant.
One of the reasons a lot of P-38's didn't survive the war was they were twin engine. A single engine ticket is a lot less hours than a twin engine license. Twin engines also doubled the maintenance costs. None of these engines had long TBO's and overhauls are very expensive
The Battle of Britain has to stand as one of the pivotal battles in the history of warfare. I was a member of the EAA for a number of years and during early 90's they celebrated the 50th anniversary of a lot of significant WWII events. I met a pilot that flew Hurricanes during the battle. He was shot down twice in one day. I still find it remarkable what the British succeeded in doing. If I recall correctly the German's never recognized the British radar antennae for what they actually were. A rather costly mistake.
