What do women think of white submissive men?

I am curious only about women answering as I'm curious, more like fascinated, about female opinions, of particularly white male submissives. As a 30 year old white male submissive, and hopeful to be in a Female Led Relationship where cuckolding might happen (i.e. if She so happens to want to) What I mean is, do women have a curiosity about submissive males if they may or may not be Dominant themselves?

I do wonder if I'm just a joke or seen as 'not a real man' in the eyes of women. I think about it a lot. I wonder if a woman would more or less see me as unworthy of long-term relationship, or if she would see me indifferently. My guess is the latter, but everyone is different. I am fully-aware that just because I want to be a woman's beta aka 'her bitch' doesn't mean that I'm just pointless. I know, but I want to know what the woman thinks. Always.
 
I don't see men who are submissive as anything negative. However, I don't initiate any type of intimate relationship with them due to that type of mentality. I will have them as friends but that's the extent of my interactions with them. Nothing wrong with how you are, it's just unfortunate that guys like you fall for reall ball busters and for me looking on the outside, doesn't seem like it would be a happy existence.
 
I don't see men who are submissive as anything negative. However, I don't initiate any type of intimate relationship with them due to that type of mentality. I will have them as friends but that's the extent of my interactions with them. Nothing wrong with how you are, it's just unfortunate that guys like you fall for reall ball busters and for me looking on the outside, doesn't seem like it would be a happy existence.
First of all, thank you for replying. I don't have a mentality of being negative myself. I neither particularly like 'ball busters'. I'm a human being first and foremost. My submissiveness and genuine desire to be in a loving (mutually loving) Female Led Relationship, doesn't define every single thing there is about my life. It's a big part of it but again, I'm just another human being on this pale blue dot in space. I'm not trying to say I am only attracted to the more intense dominant women. I like many women.

However, the confidence to talk with women can be quite tough sometimes because I am very introvert. I don't want to get seen the wrong way so I guess I talk myself out of just trying to go on dates and stuff. I mean I've tried. But sadly I've never had a proper relationship and it's really grim for me personally because I do want one. I know not every man even wants that. If they want to be single and mingling all the time that is up to them I'm not condoning or criticising that way of being. No judgement. I'm just, not into that. Nor am I cut out for that. I'm just me.

I want commitment (to give commitment and to have long-term romance) I guess I put a lot of pressure on myself to find a Lady whom wants similar things. I am not sure what you mean by 'guys like you' (do you just mean, in general, sub males, or are you implying a more specific thing there?) I want to be happy and contribute to the happiness of a woman. That includes being submissive yes but I'm not a wet lettuce. It can be hard to explain without being misunderstood on very specific contexts.
 
People can do what they want, and people are into what they're into. So I have no problem with the existence of submissive white men.

I also personally have no use for a submissive man, of any race. And adding a racialized element to the submissiveness is just silly. So for me personally, a white man who is submissive and engages in a bunch of race-based talk about his inferiority to either women or blacks is kind of a joke. I would definitely not see such a man as relationship material.

Even to the extent I sometimes think about cuckolding (as opposed to the stag/vixen thing we have going on) part of the appeal of cuckolding is stepping out on a STRONG man. Getting excited about cuckolding a submissive limpdick would be like getting excited because you can beat your five-year-old niece at basketball.
 
First of all, thank you for replying. I don't have a mentality of being negative myself. I neither particularly like 'ball busters'. I'm a human being first and foremost. My submissiveness and genuine desire to be in a loving (mutually loving) Female Led Relationship, doesn't define every single thing there is about my life. It's a big part of it but again, I'm just another human being on this pale blue dot in space. I'm not trying to say I am only attracted to the more intense dominant women. I like many women.

However, the confidence to talk with women can be quite tough sometimes because I am very introvert. I don't want to get seen the wrong way so I guess I talk myself out of just trying to go on dates and stuff. I mean I've tried. But sadly I've never had a proper relationship and it's really grim for me personally because I do want one. I know not every man even wants that. If they want to be single and mingling all the time that is up to them I'm not condoning or criticising that way of being. No judgement. I'm just, not into that. Nor am I cut out for that. I'm just me.

I want commitment (to give commitment and to have long-term romance) I guess I put a lot of pressure on myself to find a Lady whom wants similar things. I am not sure what you mean by 'guys like you' (do you just mean, in general, sub males, or are you implying a more specific thing there?) I want to be happy and contribute to the happiness of a woman. That includes being submissive yes but I'm not a wet lettuce. It can be hard to explain without being misunderstood on very specific contexts.
It was a generalization. Again, I say there's nothing wrong with they way you are, but in the same breath you can't keep talking yourself out of what you want. You're second guessing yourself, bc you speak confidently about who you are and what you want, but yet don't exud the same confidence with the action. Everything looks good on paper, but you also have to be about it. I'm a very awkward person, but my outward appearance says differently, I know this and understand that people will act accordingly to my outward appearance, but not me as a person so it confuses them, bc it doesn't match. So with that said, who cares what others think, get out there and find your "ball buster"
 
People can do what they want, and people are into what they're into. So I have no problem with the existence of submissive white men.

I also personally have no use for a submissive man, of any race. And adding a racialized element to the submissiveness is just silly. So for me personally, a white man who is submissive and engages in a bunch of race-based talk about his inferiority to either women or blacks is kind of a joke. I would definitely not see such a man as relationship material.

Even to the extent I sometimes think about cuckolding (as opposed to the stag/vixen thing we have going on) part of the appeal of cuckolding is stepping out on a STRONG man. Getting excited about cuckolding a submissive limpdick would be like getting excited because you can beat your five-year-old niece at basketball.
He's referring to himself, he's a white submissive man, and is asking for a womens perspective on who he is. He's just being clear on his question. It seems as if you may struggle with who you are, to not allow him to say his peace. This is a site for IR which is based on color, ethnicity etc. However don't get that twisted between the differences of racism that's also on this site.
 
It was a generalization. Again, I say there's nothing wrong with they way you are, but in the same breath you can't keep talking yourself out of what you want. You're second guessing yourself, bc you speak confidently about who you are and what you want, but yet don't exud the same confidence with the action. Everything looks good on paper, but you also have to be about it. I'm a very awkward person, but my outward appearance says differently, I know this and understand that people will act accordingly to my outward appearance, but not me as a person so it confuses them, bc it doesn't match. So with that said, who cares what others think, get out there and find your "ball buster"
I'm vaguely amused by the person comparing sub males the way they did (not repeating what they said) I'm not some stereotype. I am not a wet lettuce, as I said. My inexperience is where the nerves come in. It's not because I'm overly awkward. You say you're a very awkward person. Well, maybe I can be sometimes. But I think that is fair. It doesn't make someone weak or cowardly as the other person may have been suggesting.

I personally believe that to be submissive (properly) to a (truly) Dominant Female, then you have to be quite brave in ways the vaguely ignorant won't understand. I'm not going to sit here justifying my entire understanding of Femdom developed over many years. I know what a good sub male is and what a good Dominant Female likely will be. There are very many different kinds.

It's too simplistic to dismiss submissive cucks as sort of worthless or whatever that person was implying. I get the idea of dominating/cucking a stronger man being 'the challenger'. But define 'stronger'. There are lots of things that can mean in different ways. Integrity. Muscle mass. Intelligence. Fidelity. Honesty. Lots of things. And I know I am not a fool or some kind of stereotype of a weakling. I just really like women and yet know women can have better than me as a man. I do not selfishly put my own desire in front of a woman's pleasure. To me, that is the pleasure - knowing she is happy. Call it soft or idealistic. These are the cards life has dealt me.

I will not pretend I am the perfect sub I'm just trying my best. Cuckolding to me, is the curiosity. Femdom is the main interest. I love Dominant women. I love all women really. But I got curious about cuckolding because of, not in spite of, femdom. So it's an important distinction. For some people, femdom is inextricable from cuckolding on principle, as the man is clearly being cucked and there must be some sort of power dynamic, right? Well, no. Mostly yes, but also no.

A fair bit of cuckolding is done simply because of a mutual fascination, with no power play really involved. It's just seen as having fun that way by some. Kind of like how some women peg men and it's not really got a specifically femdom edge to it. It's a fine line, don't get me wrong, but if the heart isn't in the dominating aspect, other than her fucking him in the arse, then it's still mostly just sex for the sake of sex, not femdom focused. But yeah, most pegging will certainly have that aspect and one could argue it's impossible to fully remove from femdom. Ultimately, it is at least (traditional) role reversal. In which case, the pegging is likely going to have a femdom quality to it. Even if it's relatively tame. Meanwhile, other pegging happens to the extent the sub's anus looks like a wizard's sleeve...

There are diagrams and art style graphics of all the different types of cuckolding. And all the different types of cuckold couples. And there are even cuck queens aka female cuckolds. For me, without Femdom, there is not much appeal in cuckolding. I have to know the woman is interested in dominating me first. And everything else is just mutual interest. The usual stuff. Specifically I really want FLR (Female Led Relationship)

Which is, ideally as I understand it in my aspirations and desires, much more than just a sexual or raunchy thing. It's like 90% domesticity and everyday life. It's the washing the dishes, doing the chores, running the errands, making the dinners, being the footrest etc (oh I say) lol But it can, depending on the couple, also be the more kinky stuff. But that is the stereotype and most lifestyle femdom won't be pro-Domme style whips and chains and shiny black catsuits. Most of it will be like, 'clean the dishes, bitch' lol Being a woman's bitch isn't just about being a beta in bed. It's about being the beta in practically everything.

And I would be delighted in that. Not because I'm physically weaker than the woman (far from it) But because I have the integrity and belief that it is right. That it makes me happy and her happy. That it is mutually beneficial and a nice thing to do. Many men have allowed themselves to be effectively becalmed by women over the millennia, for the precise reason that they value their company and companionship higher than the effort put in. Which, is good. It's understandable.

If my theoretical Domme turned around and said I had to be in chastity for months it might make me anxious or sort of worried how I'd feel, but if it genuinely gave her such pleasure in that way to do it, the cerebral reasoning behind that would matter more to me than me getting off randomly. Plus I'd want to make her proud of me. It'd be a challenge for me. A test of my endurance. If she thought I deserved to, then it would mean so much more to me. And I have to say, going back to when I was like 18 to even 21 ish (I'm 30 now) it absolutely *terrified me* (the very sight of being in those things) But now I own a few of them. Funny how time and personal development change your opinions on things like that.

There was a time when I would have absolutely point blank refused to put one on. But then I grew up and got over myself and just realised I could try it, see how I feel about it and then think about it. And, I did. And I don't have to wear it randomly. I tend to not wear them. I currently have that freedom of choice. How exactly I'd feel about it if a woman took that choice off me, well, it's not really about that - because I'd be the one gifting her the trust of said choice, by my own consent.

Hence, I am not a weakling to be wearing them as I chose to. It was my choice. But there is a line there that needs to be discerned. Like, if I truly felt vehemently unhappy and uncomfortable with it, no matter how Dominant a woman is over me, that chastity device will be coming off. My body, my choice. I think porn can make people get carried away sometimes. I'd politely discuss it with the Domme, let her know it wasn't something I felt happy with, and request it removed. If at that point she refused, I'd consider it a lack of respect for consent and become concerned.

The problem is, at least perception wise, it seems that sub males have to tread a very fine line between being accused of 'topping from the bottom' (basically being pushy and insolent, calling the shots) and otherwise being completely compliant and deferential. If I am a woman's bitch, then yeah, it might seem 'revolutionary' to question things like that. And I am using the chastity example because it's quite straightforward to understand and literally involves ones private parts. Which, is quite personal on a human level I'd say! (as in, it is immediately understandable why the sub might be - pardon the genuinely unintended pun - 'cagey' about, well, chastity cages.

Some subs insist on wearing them and love being denied orgasms. Others like being teased in them. Others just resign themselves to the fact their penis is tiny compared to say, Big Black Cock, and feel ashamed and shy about it and feel happier with it caged. I get that. I'm not even that scared of them. I just dunno about being in them for like years at a time like some subs. Sure that can't be good for them (but that is up to them, and if they are truly unhappy with wearing it that long, they should stand up for themselves) I think it's easier for female subs to demand certain boundaries whereas male subs regularly get accused of 'topping from the bottom'. It is a thing, in my experience.

There are a LOT of genuinely rubbish tier male subs out there (like the ones that saw a femdom video once, a long time ago, and other act not submissive in a macho way, and have no reading background or clue whatsoever in femdom, but then slide into Domme's DMs expecting to be given the works for free etc; that kind of 'sub'. It really is annoying because for every true sub, there'll be chancers all over the place. And that is a shame. They can end up giving male subs a bad name. I've been following this and observing it a long time now.

And I feel that is a fair appraisal of the situation. I've outright had the complete inverse of that by the way (bad Dommes) approaching me on social media and screaming at me on their 1st message in literal 'ALL CAPSLOCK' and demanding I instantly grovel and subscribe to whatever fleecing operation they are pulling (you know, that or, the blatant scam ones that just want you to believe they aren't catfishing and being weird) There are a lot of fakers. But I've outright had what I'd safely say are 'fake Dommes' or at least, less sincere Dommes (than the ones that put their heart and soul into it on the regular and undeniably live and breathe it because they are natural Dommes who eat betas for breakfast for fun; but show them human decency and compassion as well, which is the vital difference) rock up and treat me like a doormat instantly.

When I said it can be tougher for a sub male to express opinions and voice concern, it is partly because of the dual problems of too many idiot subs ruining things and too many unconvincing 'Dommes' taking advantage and thinking it just means they can bully the man. I am not that kind of sub. I don't roll over to the first self-proclaimed Domme that approaches me. I want to sense out whether she is right for me or has my best interests at heart. Or, as is depressingly often the case, if she absolutely does not. And that in itself can sometimes be claimed to be 'nOt sUbMisSivE bEhAviOuR' which imo is just horrible gaslighting by opportunists whom are trying to prey on lonely sub males. And yeah, it can be so bloody lonely I'm not going to rose-tint it. It can be absolutely horrendous.

Most of my day to day is not being a stereotype of an effeminate sub male prancing around and being some bigot's idea of a wimp. I'd very likely be quite surprising on the physical level. I'm quite burly and have a full beard and broad chest. I'm strong. I can look after myself better than I might initially be given credit for. In the word's of the Black Knight from Monty Python The Holy Grail, "None shall pass" lol I'm not saying I'm some Rambo type figure who can make women pregnant by looking at them. I'm just saying I'm not a wet lettuce/wimp. I'm just beta, and know I'm beta (that almost sounds motivational: 'How to be a betta beta' lol)

What I was getting at, was that it can be easy to get tangled up in arguments as a sub male, about how 'sub' I am. I've had my fair share of awkward arguments defending myself against some random trying to basically call into question my knowledge, understanding and proficiency in being a sub. Which is kind of irritating. Especially if you know you have been one for over a decade and have constantly self-improved as one. Then some random who never knew you, comes along and thinks they have you sussed out in three seconds. It's just typical.

And the sub male knows there are a lot of what I'd call, pseudo-subs or fake subs around, making life harder for real subs. It's annoying af. For me it's not about rubbing one out to femdom fantasies then relapsing and pretending it 'is just a phase' or 'it isn't me'. I would straight up say to someone's face I am a male sub and not bat an eyelid. I don't care. I am comfortable with that being what I am. Though no, there is scarcely any cause to do that theoretically or not, in real-life. It's not the done thing.

But I'm saying if I was pressured to say it, if I like femdom (say by someone asking it deliberately to mock me) I would straight up just say, 'Yes, what of it?'. If it somehow makes me a freak for loving femdom, I don't really care. The thing is though, it can be tense as a male sub just explaining boundaries even, because there it can be too easy to be mistaken for being insolent. I've noticed that can be a difficult balance. The sub must be respectful at all times, but not just suffer any foolishness.

As I said earlier, the sub should be allowed to stick up for themselves and set boundaries or respectful suggestions of their own. In the scenario of the chastity cages, I wouldn't just rudely take it off and pout. It's not like that. I'd just very meticulously explain why I don't feel comfortable with it and move on (it's not that it would even happen; I'd literally never complain, I believe I should be in chastity long-term) It's not even something I'm scared of anymore I'm just worried if it might make it ironically harder for me to get an erection.

I've heard mixed takes on that, ranging from, it's harmless, to it does something to shrink the already mediocre penis through lack of use and so on. But again that's a very specific example. I think it depends on a lot of factors. Of course it won't exactly be at it's best if it was caged for 12 months for instance (like some cuckold couples do; I've even seen stories of chastity lasting several years to the point the sub's penis becomes like a nub; I do have my boundaries, and I'm more middle of the road in my tastes; cuck me, peg me, facesit me, make me worship and serve...that is all I want...any of the more, 'out there' stuff is just that; out there and not really something I need - like being fisted up to the woman's elbow lol no thanks *I wince thinking about it eurgh* that said she can pound my backside with a big dildo :p a woman once said to me she'd like to peg me with a dildo cast from the theoretical Black bull's cock. I wasn't saying no to that not gonna lie lol) Yet I just want FLR really. I say 'just' but that is a very tough thing to achieve in truth. There is luck in it.

P. S. - Not really looking for a 'ball buster', still, just to stress that. FLR is ideally something to build with someone who loves you as much as they want to make you their bitch :p I happen to not want my balls busted (I'm being honest about that, but I am saying it tongue-in-cheek, because I know full-well what you meant and it's all good)
 
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I don't see men who are submissive as anything negative. However, I don't initiate any type of intimate relationship with them due to that type of mentality. I will have them as friends but that's the extent of my interactions with them. Nothing wrong with how you are, it's just unfortunate that guys like you fall for reall ball busters and for me looking on the outside, doesn't seem like it would be a happy existence.
Goddess, everyone is different, but I lived a very happy existence and have zero regrets over it.
 
He's referring to himself, he's a white submissive man, and is asking for a womens perspective on who he is. He's just being clear on his question. It seems as if you may struggle with who you are, to not allow him to say his peace. This is a site for IR which is based on color, ethnicity etc. However don't get that twisted between the differences of racism that's also on this site.
He asked a question. I answered it.
 
I don't see men who are submissive as anything negative. However, I don't initiate any type of intimate relationship with them due to that type of mentality. I will have them as friends but that's the extent of my interactions with them. Nothing wrong with how you are, it's just unfortunate that guys like you fall for reall ball busters and for me looking on the outside, doesn't seem like it would be a happy existence.
From Christine -
Well said. I view hubby Ray just like one of my best girlfriends.
I have no respect for him sexually whatsoever. Which is one of the reasons I encouraged
him to bottom and helped fem him.

I think that once you see your husband or boyfriend getting fucked and
him letting them take his manhood away, I don't think you can ever forget
that image. It totally changes the marriage.
 
From Christine -
Well said. I view hubby Ray just like one of my best girlfriends.
I have no respect for him sexually whatsoever. Which is one of the reasons I encouraged
him to bottom and helped fem him.

I think that once you see your husband or boyfriend getting fucked and
him letting them take his manhood away, I don't think you can ever forget
that image. It totally changes the marriage.
Christine, you have described our cuckold marriage perfectly. Once my wife watched her black boyfriend deep fucking my throat and breeding my man pussy, her respect for me as a masculine man disappeared forever. The visual image of my total submission changed our marriage completely.

She still loved me on an emotional level as her feminized girlfriend but no longer on a sexual or romantic level. Instead, her loving feelings for her black boyfriend grew much stronger.
 
I was in BDSM years ago, some 15 years ago when a girlfriend reveal to me that another experienced girl from BDSM said to her: "Submissives are not real men".
They had never spoken something like that in public, but It was true about your thoughts. In an environment where submissive males are resources for these women, they aren't encouraged to say some truths, then enjoy when the truth is delivered to you.
All I know is that submissives are real men.
 
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