Mac, it's a simple YES or NO question - you still failed to answer. So NO, you DID NOT answer the question. A chart is not answering my question. Just another dance around.
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Hillary wont be a friend of gun owners
- Thread starter Alanm
- Start date
Typical, you preach that the gun bans are "saving lives" then turn around in hypocritical fashion and support abortions.
How about the women using the abortion agree to the same penalties as a person who shoots someone.
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Fact is, the ONLY thing you will agree to is an ALL OUT BAN, but you don't want to admit it.
I have agreed to the Watch list, I have agreed to the background checks, and I have agreed to the certifications and qualification for AW types. And yet you still accuse ME of not "meeting half way", you still accuse ME of being the one that is argumentative. Why? becasue YOU KNOW that is NOT what you really want and even if these 3 tings are in place, the next time there is a shooting you will again demand that the Right bend a knee again, and again, and again.
This is not some speed limit law to be adjusted on a whim, this is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Thanks for finally showing your true colors, Jericho, I thought you among the rest had some sense about you. I see you are just like all the rest. Don't let party lines cloud your judgment.
I have agreed to the Watch list, I have agreed to the background checks, and I have agreed to the certifications and qualification for AW types. And yet you still accuse ME of not "meeting half way", you still accuse ME of being the one that is argumentative. Why? becasue YOU KNOW that is NOT what you really want and even if these 3 tings are in place, the next time there is a shooting you will again demand that the Right bend a knee again, and again, and again.
This is not some speed limit law to be adjusted on a whim, this is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Thanks for finally showing your true colors, Jericho, I thought you among the rest had some sense about you. I see you are just like all the rest. Don't let party lines cloud your judgment.
You want to save lives - address these
http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php
http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php
Well the idea is to stop the hemorrhage correct? Your going to ******* and unfortunately regardless of how good a comprehensive legislation is on guns, bad people will do bad things, just like many law enforcement agencies, from local to state to federal; their not saying stop crime their saying deter it. Their fully aware of how awful human beings can be to one another. This gun debate is no less similar, their will be accidental deaths as well as deliberate planned out homocides but thats why we take precautious and extra steps to ensure we reduce such unnecessary fatalities from happening. To propose nothing in my mind is to be complicit with what is happening and that sir is unacceptable. Lets not talk about guns as those their no what they are...there weapons with one sole purpose in any society or community and that is to *******. I accept guns as a reality but what I wont accept is white noise to the issue
What I am saying is a hammer can be deadly just like a gun.....it's the person holding it that's the issue not the object....stop turning guns into some kind of bogeyman out to get people.
Yes.....you tell me how that statement is not true.
Again putting words in people's mouths mac......my opinion is I am perfectly fine with the current gun laws and just don't feel the need for more.
Again you dance around the question, or maybe you simply do not comprehend, I'm not sure which - I am not disputing what you say here , but you're not answering my question - just answer yes or no.
If the laws were to add 1. comprehensive background checks, 2. gun training, safety and certification requirements 3. watch list restrictions. These are the 3 things you and Mac have expressed MUST happen. Is that ENOUGH or will you insist on MORE? It's a Yes or No question.
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I am not making guns a bogeyman I am just saying on a quantitive scale guns are far more lethal and could way more damage. You dont go to a hammer store and fill out a background check you go to Lowes or home depot. I get what your saying but it doesnt address the issue it talks about the symptoms but not the actual cause. Guns come into existence all on their own alanm they were made by man, and bc man had intent to use it as a lethal weapon. That argument doesnt make sense to me. Bc we know clearly what mechanism the person used to commit the crime. Guns arent some conscious sentient beings that control minds, we are and for that reason as creators of such lethal objects we must do anything to limit the deaths of others while upholding our second amendment
No.listen a plan of action is better than no plan. I, nor macnfries didnt descend from a mountain with tablets inscribed with perfect laws. Clearly i am aware that issues will arise but its better than absolutely nothing, and the laws I proposed will not affect a gun owner such as yourself at all. The laws proposed will not have anyone knock on your door with federal agents who will throw you in a black sedan and taken away from your family never to be seen again. Nor will it be the case for those suspected of wanting firearms for nefarious purposes. It addresses the pattern of behavior among these individuals who carry out such horrible attacks.
So the 3 tings that you have been arguing in favor of isn't enough. What then is it that YOU specifically think needs to happen. That's all I am asking, no need to blow things out of proportion please keep it level. Keeping in mind that the Watch list unconstitutionally takes rights away from innocent people but I am willing to bend there. You must also keep in mind the TRUE nature of the 2nd amendment. It has nothing to do with hunting, home defense, or sport. We can not defend against a militant government or invading ******* with Muskets and 50 yard gram loads.
In truth the ONLY way to stop gun violence is a full ban and immediate mass confiscation and continued vigorous gun hunt among criminals. However violent crime will still be on the rise becasue restricting, banning, complete removal of guns does absolutely nothing to address the REAL element of human nature. Fact: Less poverty = less crime, Fact: Lower ******* abuse = less crime. Fact: lower education = more poverty, Fact: Less poverty = less ******* abuse. Fact: higher standard of living = less crime. Do you see a trend here? Why are we not addressing the human element issue? Why is the ONLY concern on guns? We did not have this mass shooting problem 50 yeas or even 30 years ago. We MUST ask the question "Why is this happening Now"?What has changed?
Yes, they were created by man as a better weapon....using a spear isn't nearly as effective but let's remember if it wasn't for the gun the United states would not exist.....the gun has good uses as well....not just to commit crime but to defend against it and defend against tyranny.
The gun is hear to stay, it's not going away. I would as a society rather focus on the issues and causes of gun violence.
Here the thing @TwoBiFour laws change as they should change. Policies, procedures all of the above change. And they must. This doesnt mean slowly yet surely we are eroding the 2nd amendment; just like pathogen that invades the body it will evolve and metastasize with every antibiotic we throw at it. Its obivous we are planning for now. Just like when the founding fathers created the constitution which includes the 2nd amendment; they did not forecast columbine. What is today's issue may not be tomorrow's issue. Military technological advancements will probably create far more efficient weapons to ******* the enemy but so will those who will use such weapons to take life not preserve it. We arent talking about universal term limits here, you or I can not anticipate that, but right now, right at this very moment, if we can do anything to stop the senseless killings that happened at lets say a nightclub like pulse in orlando. Than lets do it.
What the majority of this group doesn't wish to acknowledge is the fact that this whole problem with guns is aspirated by manufacturers, sellers, and the NRA to make MONEY .... it is not concerned with gun safety, or whether to limit the types of guns, or to inforce stricter background checks ... its simply to sell a very marketable product ... actually no different than cigarette companies of a few decades back promoting their cancer/heart disease smokes. They knew, then, that their product was killing people but they continued promoting and making money on their product until the government stepped in and said "enough" ... and how many billions of dollars have they now paid out in lawsuits? Yet, no one stopped the manufacturing of cigerettes, just applied more warning & safety in using their products.
It'll be the same with guns someday, I believe. The country and system will finally say "enough"and the gun industry will find itself in a similar situation as the cigarette industry did. TwoBi says I didn't give him a specific enough answer to his question as to when I would be satisfied. He's asking for specific "applications" ... I could really care less about applications ... smaller magazines, lower calibers, laser sites, etc ... I care about the decrease in the number of growing deaths and injuries from a ever growing sophisticated weapon industry. I want to see the number of deaths per 100,000 lives go way, way down ... and until it does, what ever we do as a country will NOT be enough. There's no way to predict what one application change might have ... its a multi-choice job.
You guys can say I'm against guns if you wish; I've stated many times that I have guns of my own ... but the sophisticated weaponry being sold now is extremely dangerous. It needs to stop. Alanm says he's happy just as things are, but the gun makers and dealers are NOT going to stop modifying and increasing the ******* efficiency of their weapons because they're just like cars ... continually developing. The civilian population shouldn't have access to these type weapons.
An eBay purchase ...
It'll be the same with guns someday, I believe. The country and system will finally say "enough"and the gun industry will find itself in a similar situation as the cigarette industry did. TwoBi says I didn't give him a specific enough answer to his question as to when I would be satisfied. He's asking for specific "applications" ... I could really care less about applications ... smaller magazines, lower calibers, laser sites, etc ... I care about the decrease in the number of growing deaths and injuries from a ever growing sophisticated weapon industry. I want to see the number of deaths per 100,000 lives go way, way down ... and until it does, what ever we do as a country will NOT be enough. There's no way to predict what one application change might have ... its a multi-choice job.
You guys can say I'm against guns if you wish; I've stated many times that I have guns of my own ... but the sophisticated weaponry being sold now is extremely dangerous. It needs to stop. Alanm says he's happy just as things are, but the gun makers and dealers are NOT going to stop modifying and increasing the ******* efficiency of their weapons because they're just like cars ... continually developing. The civilian population shouldn't have access to these type weapons.
An eBay purchase ...
Increasing the ******* efficiency. The manufacturers make these guns because there is a market for them.....people enjoy shooting these weapons....they are actually fun! Is someone going to use it to commit a crime...probably.
You seem to think that just banning these weapons to the public will stop mass shooting. How? An outright confiscation of assault weapons is unlikely given the quantities that exist. So they just stop selling them. Doesn't remove all the ones already out in the country and what about all the places where you can buy components and build your own...
You gonna shut down all of those places too? It's way bigger and way harder then you realize.
I have acknowledge this many times, Yes it always has been and always will be all about the money. What you fail to acknowledge is the take is on both sides. You think Hillary hasn't taken any money from the NRA? Same with cigarettes, but at least I always have the choice to smoke or not to smoke even after knowing the dangers. How would you rather live? With choices or instructions?
But I thank you for your more straight forward answer.
Of course, if they put RPGs or even weapons grade plutonium on the market, there would be a big market for those too. Please don't insult my intelligence, Alanm. What the public wants is not necessarily what the public gets. The government took away fully automatic weapons decades ago ... they put heavy restrictions on cigarettes, too ... people got pissed and complained. Do you not think those restrictions weren't needed? What about restrictors on car speeds, or even speed signs ... would it be better to just let the public drive their cars at any rate of speed? The fact is, these type of restrictions were designed to protect the public, not just the individuals violating the laws.
Alanm, I'm really starting to question your intelligence, man ... why do you keep reading something into what I post simply to take issue with it? AS I SAID ... (wish my typing s-l-o-w-e-r would help your comprehension), if the gun makers are going to sell AR-15 type guns ... don't sell the public military grade weaponry ... the high caliber/high speed ammunition, the large 30-50 round clips, the bumper stocks, the lasers, the flash guards, etc ... the public doesn't need a rifle that shoots a large gram bullet a mile in a second, or 200 rounds in a minute. Thing is, the NRA & gun makers are laughing all the way to the bank at you folks because you're such fools to believe their lines of "garb" ... simply BS.
I'm done with you on this topic, Alanm ... I'm starting to question your ability to even "reason". Say what you must, but no more "talking to a wall" with you, for ME.
Your the one whose intelligence i question....ITS NOT A MILITARY WEAPON...
The military version is AUTOMATIC....and don't give me your ******* about high caliber high speed ammo because every hunting rifle on the market has a BIGGER and sometimes even higher speed bullet.
All the other ******* you quoted is BS....flash suppressor....please, laser sights.....who cares....they make them for pistols and have for years. 30 round mags big deal....ban them. I will just take the extra few seconds to change out three 10 round mags.
Seems to me you would just rather live in a socialist country where the government tells you how to live and governs every aspect of your life. And no I don't think restrictions on cigarettes are needed, people need to take fucking responsibility for their own actions in this country...if you wanna smoke and get cancer you are free to do so.
To many cry babies in this world who want to blame everyone for their problems.....boo hoo cigarettes gave me cancer or alcohol ruined my liver, we'll maybe you shouldn't have smoked 3 packs a day or drank a bottle of vodka a week.
Same with guns, let's blame the asshole pulling the trigger and not the gun. Because you know and I know even if they re-instituted the assault weapons ban the next mass shooting that occurs with a glock 17 you will be bitching how nobody needs a ******* with 17 rounds because it was developed for the police.
Of course I believe their "garb" I actually like guns....of all kinds
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