Why? - Exploring the Interest in Depth

[Dblinsey]

Hi,

This thread is a spin-off from the Stag/Vixen (non-cuckold) thread established back in 2018. Some of us started looking into motivations, nuances and terminology that applies to the lifestyle and quickly derailed the thread. So we 'got a room' for ourselves to continue this discussion.

All views are welcome, but speaking for myself, I'd appreciate a rational discussion, taking the approach that no one is right, and no one is wrong; everyone is justified in sharing their opinions. But blatant statements unsupported by discussion isn't what we're looking for. I think you'll get the gist of the discussion once you see people start posting.

So, let the games begin!

Hugs

Donna

 

[Dblinsey]

Oh, forgot to add. If you look at this thread, and want to see the origins, please look at the 'Stag/Vixen (non-cuckold)" thread. There are some interesting points discussing in that discussion.

Donna

 

[Dblinsey]

"Mywayintermsofsex" posted the comment:
You are talking about "conscious action" and "choice". i was talking about "voluntary engagement" and "consent". Maybe those two pairs reflect roughly the same, but why i chose the latter terms is because they are in use by the "flagsystem". - A system develeped by "professionals" for "professionals" to help them correctly assess acceptable and unacceptable sexual behavior based on six criteria (aspects).
In that system "voluntary engagement" and "consent" are two different aspects, so i think there must be a difference between those two. Just FYI the other criteria are...

* equality,
* development,
* context and
* self-respect.

Your example of "If I don't pay, they'll ******* me." is a good one, ImO. Based on that you may consent to the payment in order not to lose your life, but is it voluntary? Most probably you wouldn't have done it, if you weren't ******.
Food for thoughts.

You're right, got the terms confused, my bad.

I don't think I agree that 'voluntary engagement' and 'consent' are two different things. How many times have you seen a television show where the mousy guy who was driving the get-away car pleads to the police "Hey man, I had to do it. They said they'd ******* me if I didn't"? Rarely is that guy given a break. Rationale is that he could have gone to the police, he could have left town, he could have done a lot of different things other than driving the get-away car.

On the other side of the discussion, we have the girl who bucked the law. Everyone was doing it, but she said no. Voluntary Engagement / Consent to engage, resulted in the Woman's Right to Vote, Civil Rights Reform and even the establishment of the United States and a lot of other things that has impacted our lives, some for the good, some for the bad.

The only exclusion to this would be Stockholm Syndrome. That's where a person is kidnapped and over time, begins to identify with his captors. The end result is that they start doing things (robbing banks, *******, etc) that they wouldn't normally do. Look up Patty Hearst for a benchmark example.

But what caused me to question the argument presented above was the statement:
"...are in use by the "flagsystem". - A system develeped by "professionals" for "professionals" to help them correctly assess acceptable and unacceptable sexual behavior based on six criteria (aspects).
In that system "voluntary engagement" and "consent" are two different aspects, so i think there must be a difference between those two. Just FYI the other criteria are...

* equality,
* development,
* context and
* self-respect...."

And more specifically: "...assess acceptable and unacceptable sexual behavior based on six criteria (aspects)..."

I'm thinking that an individual can voluntarily engage in something, consent to it, establish a basis of equality, develop the interest, place it in the proper context and hold themselves in a high degree of self-respect, yet still engage in unacceptable sexual behavior.

While I am very open minded about what a person likes to do sexually, I draw two lines:
1) No children are involved
2) Everything is consensual

Simple and straight forward. Both activities result to harm to an individual, and the person being harmed is not voluntary engaged nor have given their legal consent (it's considered that a minor cannot give legal consent).

But, a person can do something that fits all the criteria, and be considered to be engaged in unacceptable sexual behavior. Adult ******* is an example. I was given this scenario (it was a true event) in college:

A man and a woman are living together. He is 25, she is 23. All outward appearances, they are a married couple. They wear wedding rings and appear to be just another normal couple.

One day, a nosy neighbor puts some things together and discovers that they are Brother and Sister. The police are called, the couple are asked what their relationships status is and are given the truth, they are Brother and Sister who are deeply in love with one another. In fact, he has even gone so far as to have a vasectomy so that children aren't part of the relationship.

Question: Should they be prosecuted by the state?

Answer: Case was dismissed (I think the case was in Baltimore, but don't quote me on that)

None of the factors that were outlined above applied, but it was unacceptable sexual behavior, according to the state.

Finally, define unacceptable sexual behavior. Homosexuality; not any more. Interracial relationships; evolving. It's a fluid dynamic, like nailing jello on the wall, nothing sticks.

No children, everything consensual, no problem.

 

[mywayintermsofsex]

(...)

No children, everything consensual, no problem.

i think that's understood?!

(...)
Finally, define unacceptable sexual behavior. Homosexuality; not any more. Interracial relationships; evolving. It's a fluid dynamic, like nailing jello on the wall, nothing sticks.

(...)

ImO a lot of that depends on "culture", the community you are in, and by that also context. (BTW homosexuality is still illegal in some countries and something one can go to jail for. )

But if i may pick up your own example... Calling someone a "slut" without being asked for would be "unaccepted behavior", or call it inappropriate. But it depends. In a non-sexual forum bringing up anything sexual, no matter how innocent it may be, can already be inappropriate/unaccepted. In a forum where name-calling is almost common place, it may be acceptable/appropriate. For instance in a story or shared experience. But it is definitely a different thing when it is supposed to address an individual directly (openly or in a DM). But even in that case it depends on the context. What if a Woman has a profile that makes it clear that she actually wishes to be approached in that manner (because it's her kink, for instance)?

Donna, i am thankful for you starting this thread but i think your initial posts are so heavily loaded that it is hard to find the right entry point into the discussion. :|

One thing i have on my mind and is kinda working/evolving inside me for awhile now is to create a sort of a guide intended for wifesharing beginners. It would also include a section on "interracial" aspects and perhaps elaborate more on that too. The idea is that it should be very general but also go into some detail about the many different guises that do exist within that "lifestyle family". The focus should be more on relationships and emotional twists than the "physical sex" itself. It seems that everything that's out there already (at least that i have found ) is lacking in that department.

So i hope to find REAL lifestyle participants (couples and singles), also people who had participated in that sorts of lifestyle but dropped out for a reason. i would love to hear/read what actually moves them/YOU, made them/YOU start/end a non-monogamous lifestyle and how they/YOU are/were feeling during play-time, before and after.

i hope that kind of discussion is appreciated here @Dblinsey? Or where would you prefer the discussion to lead to Donna? TY

 

[MacNfries]

 

[Dblinsey]

Hi,

I’ll answer your post, one bit at a time. Your observations are in Bold type

ImO a lot of that depends on "culture", the community you are in, and by that also context. (BTW homosexuality is still illegal in some countries and something one can go to jail for. )

So very true, Russia is a fine example, Nazi Germany they killed homosexuals. Today, Iran does the same. But when people talk about morality or society norms, they are using the view from their culture, not a global observation.

But if i may pick up your own example... Calling someone a "slut" without being asked for would be "unaccepted behavior", or call it inappropriate. But it depends. In a non-sexual forum bringing up anything sexual, no matter how innocent it may be, can already be inappropriate/unaccepted. In a forum where name-calling is almost common place, it may be acceptable/appropriate. For instance in a story or shared experience. But it is definitely a different thing when it is supposed to address an individual directly (openly or in a DM). But even in that case it depends on the context. What if a Woman has a profile that makes it clear that she actually wishes to be approached in that manner (because it's her kink, for instance)?

Not my argument. As I’ve stated repeatedly, ‘If it works for you, then great’ but there are some contexts, even in a sexually orientated environment such as this one where it may be inappropriate. For example, “Show us a picture of your Black Whore Wife” isn’t (IMO) appropriate. It’s a shoutout to everyone that the person who started the thread really has a low opinion of the women who participate in it.

Conversely, if a woman loves to be called a whore or slut, she is free to express this view to her playmates and they are free to use it. It’s all in contextual utilization.

Donna, i am thankful for you starting this thread but i think your initial posts are so heavily loaded that it is hard to find the right entry point into the discussion. :|

Will try to do some unloading…..

One thing i have on my mind and is kinda working/evolving inside me for awhile now is to create a sort of a guide intended for wifesharing beginners. It would also include a section on "interracial" aspects and perhaps elaborate more on that too. The idea is that it should be very general but also go into some detail about the many different guises that do exist within that "lifestyle family". The focus should be more on relationships and emotional twists than the "physical sex" itself. It seems that everything that's out there already (at least that i have found ) is lacking in that department.

I would absolutely love to explore this. If your intended venue is to just do a dissertation on the various nuances, remember who your audience is. If it’s for folks in here, I would not do a dissertation. Instead I would do a slide/picture presentation, highlighting your points with pictures. I think they would be more easily received and, in effect, get your point across in an ‘entertaining’ way. Thoughts?

So i hope to find REAL lifestyle participants (couples and singles), also people who had participated in that sorts of lifestyle but dropped out for a reason. i would love to hear/read what actually moves them/YOU, made them/YOU start/end a non-monogamous lifestyle and how they/YOU are/were feeling during play-time, before and after.

I don’t think a total outline is valid for this thread. Each entry would be quite long and a lot of folks just don’ want to take the time to jot it all down so you could somehow compile it. Perhaps a questionnaire would be the appropriate venue. I don’t know.

But I will start with myself:

Yes, I’m active “Real Participant”

No, haven’t dropped out

Motivation: Excitement, difference, and just plain fun.

How did we start? Totally unplanned. We were on a vacation in the Bahamas and it just happened. Prior to that, we were your standard vanilla suburban couple.

Feeling during playtime? Simply love it! Hubby watches and he loves it too.

i hope that kind of discussion is appreciated here @Dblinsey? Or where would you prefer the discussion to lead to Donna? TY

Any discussion is welcomed here. Just so long as it doesn’t degrade into name calling or other abuse.

Donna