Most Overrated/Underrated President

[Dpad]

Who do you consider the most overrated president?

And Who is the most underrated?

 

[MacNfries]

Why don't YOU start, Dpad, its your thread ... let's see how much detail you know about your Presidents.

 

[Dpad]

You're right. I should have started with my opinions.Underrated: Lyndon Johnson. I didn't learn much about him throughout school. He was only mentioned once in my high school, which was the signing of the Civil Rights Act 1964. Other accomplishments include The Voting Right Act of 1965. Appointing Thurgood Marshall on the Supreme Court, the first African American Supreme Court judge. People don't realize, but this changed the political landscape. The Democratic Party use to count heavily on the Southern Democrats, which Johnson was part of. "We have lost the South for a generation," was President Johnson is supposed to have said after signing these acts. Started programs such as Head Start, food stamps, Work Study, Medicare, and Medicaid. Signed the Immigration Act of 1965, which substantially liberalized US immigration policy towards non-Europeans. The problem with Lyndon Johnson is that most things are overshadowed by the escalation in Vietnam.

 

[MacNfries]

I won't argue with your choice of "most underrated"; what about the most OVERrated?

 

[Dpad]

Ronal Reagan, without a doubt. First, the national debt rose from 900 billion to over 2 trillion by decreasing taxes on the rich during massive military spending. Unemployment rose to 11%. Reagan did get the country out of the recession by abandoning Reaganomics, and raising taxes 11 times in his last 6 years. The largest of these was the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibilty Act of 1982. It was written and proposed by the Democratic Congress, and was reluctantly signed in by Reagan. This was the turning point and boost the economy needed, and spurred economic growth. Yet today's Republicans still cling to the failed policy that is trickle-down. Something not talked about is his handling of AIDS. Little medical aid, money, or policies were set up to combat it. Also ignored was the education system. He did nothing to stop the downhill slide of inner city schools, and crumbling systems. Reagan publicly denounced public education and tried, unsuccessfully, to privatize many schools. He continued his campaign against public education by cutting federal aid for higher education. The whole idea that he brought the downfall of the Soviet Union and ended the Cold War is bullshit. The Soviet Union collapsed because of Perestroika & Glasnost. These polices strengthened the individual Soviet states, allowing more independence and market-reform. These in turn brought more revolution amongst the states. His foreign policy regarding Latin America: Reagan spent billions of dollars into small wars in countries like Nicaragua. These were done without consulting Congress and were done merely to protect our nation's business interests.

 

[MacNfries]

Reagan did get the country out of the recession by abandoning Reaganomics, and raising taxes 11 times in his last 6 years. The largest of these was the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibilty Act of 1982. It was written and proposed by the Democratic Congress, and was reluctantly signed in by Reagan. This was the turning point and boost the economy needed, and spurred economic growth. Yet today's Republicans still cling to the failed policy that is trickle-down.

Can't disagree with your choice of most OVERRATED Presidents; appears you did your homework on Reagan. I'd like to add a few sentences, however ...
Reagan didn't abandon his Supply-Side Reaganomics, he let the middle class primarily pay for income tax cuts through his tax increases; he was still giving tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans. You're right, it was the Democrats who insisted on TEFRA as an offset to Reagan's spending spree. In fact, it was Democrats and a few of Reagan's own advisors who insisted on several of the tax increases simply because they knew how his cuts to revenue would impact to the Nat'l Debt. And it was because of THIS that Reagan gave Grover Norquist his job of going around to ALL Republicans signing a pledge of not accepting any more tax increases by the Democrats, which GH Bush broke his pledge once he followed Reagan.
Republicans continually robbed their primary revenue source without making adjustments to spending ... hence the first $10 trillion of Nat'l Debt and the acceptance of an all new level "deficit spending" was reignited.
Oh, and one last note ... that tax increase on Social Security he said was to "shore up SS for the next 20-30 years or whatever", much of those funds were used to offset his tax cuts and other spendings as well.
Republicans never truly understood Supply-Side, they just knew it created votes and helped THEM get re-elected. They were willing to kick THAT can down the road for someone else to handle ... and guess what ... BINGO ... we're IT.

 

[MacNfries]

.....I may get slapped around a bit by liberals, but I believe JF Kennedy was overrated, simply because he's credited with so much but was in office such a short time. To me, he was a charismatic celebrity just like Ronald Reagan, which was why people liked him and his hot bride, Jacqueline, even though he was sticking his dick into every hot snatch (including M. Monroe) that he could find. Behind closed doors, all was not "happy" in Camelot.
.....He was an inspiring President ... trip to the moon, bringing back pride in America, etc, BUT, he got us into Vietnam (an undeclared war of politics), Bay of Pigs, and probably weak on civil rights as it was developing ... a lot of things he had dreams of accomplishing or starting, Lyndon Johnson had to clean up or follow through.
.....So, even though I believe Kennedy would have been a good 2-term president, he is "over-rated" in his accomplishments in history.

.....Close behind him, I'd say would be Woodrow Wilson with his suppression of "free speech" (ie Sedition Act of 1917), his blatant open racism, and his League Of Nations. Wilson liked meddling in foreign affairs ... 7 wars ... especially with little countries like Haiti and Dominican Republic ... whoopee ... but hesitated at helping out GB when they were at war and being blockaded and attacked by Germany. The PM warned Wilson that if the US did not help in their war with Germany, the US would not be welcome at the table once Germany & Austria were defeated.
......One interesting thing that happened during his presidency was after he had incurred a stroke and was out of sight for a while. His wife, Edith Galt, assumed the role of co-President (steward to the President) of the USA. The stories of her are a "hoot" to read. She read his mail, stood between him and his cabinet, and even accused of signing his signature to letters. She also self-proclaimed herself a direct descendant of Pocahontas, and bloodline of Thomas Jefferson and Martha Washington.

 

[Dpad]

.....I may get slapped around a bit by liberals, but I believe JF Kennedy was overrated, simply because he's credited with so much but was in office such a short time. To me, he was a charismatic celebrity just like Ronald Reagan, which was why people liked him and his hot bride, Jacqueline, even though he was sticking his dick into every hot snatch (including M. Monroe) that he could find. Behind closed doors, all was not "happy" in Camelot.
.....He was an inspiring President ... trip to the moon, bringing back pride in America, etc, BUT, he got us into Vietnam (an undeclared war of politics), Bay of Pigs, and probably weak on civil rights as it was developing ... a lot of things he had dreams of accomplishing or starting, Lyndon Johnson had to clean up or follow through.
.....So, even though I believe Kennedy would have been a good 2-term president, he is "over-rated" in his accomplishments in history.

.....Close behind him, I'd say would be Woodrow Wilson with his suppression of "free speech" (ie Sedition Act of 1917), his blatant open racism, and his League Of Nations. Wilson liked meddling in foreign affairs ... 7 wars ... especially with little countries like Haiti and Dominican Republic ... whoopee ... but hesitated at helping out GB when they were at war and being blockaded and attacked by Germany. The PM warned Wilson that if the US did not help in their war with Germany, the US would not be welcome at the table once Germany & Austria were defeated.
......One interesting thing that happened during his presidency was after he had incurred a stroke and was out of sight for a while. His wife, Edith Galt, assumed the role of co-President (steward to the President) of the USA. The stories of her are a "hoot" to read. She read his mail, stood between him and his cabinet, and even accused of signing his signature to letters. She also self-proclaimed herself a direct descendant of Pocahontas, and bloodline of Thomas Jefferson and Martha Washington.

Agree. JFK was overrated. The thing is he was assassinated and it left us to wonder, what could have been? Also, people I've met believe Oliver Stone's movie JFK, where it's discovered he was killed for trying to stop Vietnam from getting bigger. They don't realize that Kennedy was the one who started sending military advisors to the region.
As for Wilson, I can't really give my opinion since I've not read much about him.

 

[Torpedo]

Ronal Reagan, without a doubt. First, the national debt rose from 900 billion to over 2 trillion by decreasing taxes on the rich during massive military spending. Unemployment rose to 11%. Reagan did get the country out of the recession by abandoning Reaganomics, and raising taxes 11 times in his last 6 years. The largest of these was the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibilty Act of 1982. It was written and proposed by the Democratic Congress, and was reluctantly signed in by Reagan. This was the turning point and boost the economy needed, and spurred economic growth. Yet today's Republicans still cling to the failed policy that is trickle-down. Something not talked about is his handling of AIDS. Little medical aid, money, or policies were set up to combat it. Also ignored was the education system. He did nothing to stop the downhill slide of inner city schools, and crumbling systems. Reagan publicly denounced public education and tried, unsuccessfully, to privatize many schools. He continued his campaign against public education by cutting federal aid for higher education. The whole idea that he brought the downfall of the Soviet Union and ended the Cold War is bullshit. The Soviet Union collapsed because of Perestroika & Glasnost. These polices strengthened the individual Soviet states, allowing more independence and market-reform. These in turn brought more revolution amongst the states. His foreign policy regarding Latin America: Reagan spent billions of dollars into small wars in countries like Nicaragua. These were done without consulting Congress and were done merely to protect our nation's business interests.

What about Barrack Obama raising the nation debt from 10 trillion to more 19 trillion in 7 years. How about the lowest work ******* participation level in over 40 years. What about more businesses closing than starting? How about our porous borders> Obama is easily the most over rated.
The most under rated was Gerald Ford. He brought the country back together again. But then the only reason Nixon resigned was the Democrats controlled both houses. If the Republicans had controlled either house Nixon would have never resigned and he wouldn't have been impeached either

 

[MacNfries]

" .... and the Obama bashers never sleep."
The party of NO is so unhappy right now. Voters are starting to wake up to the past 4 (soon to be 6) years of doing NOTHING. They'll be a lot unhappier come December.

 

[Torpedo]

View attachment 794020 " .... and the Obama bashers never sleep."
The party of NO is so unhappy right now. Voters are starting to wake up to the past 4 (soon to be 6) years of doing NOTHING. They'll be a lot unhappier come December.

I can't speak for others but I bash Obama because he is a lousy president. He has no real leadership ability. If he was a real leader he would have brought sides together instead of whining about how the Republicans are obstructing him. You go on long and loud about what a great job Clinton did but he only had Democratic control of both houses of Congress for the 103 Congress. The 104th, 105th and 106th Congress Clinton had to deal with both houses being controlled by the Republicans. Then let's go to your favorite punching bag Ronald Reagan. He never had the luxury of Republican control of both houses anytime during his tenure. In the 97th, 98th and 99th Congress the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives. In the 100th Congress the Democrats controlled both Houses of Congress. So all the great sins that you consistently bitch about were brought about with the help of the Democratic party. You have done a long list of the evils that GHW Bush was responsible for but he never had the luxury of Republican control either House of Congress anytime during his tenure. He dealt with Democratic control of both Houses his entire time in office. It seems that every president on either side of the aisle except our present one can successfully deal the opposition and push their agenda. President Obama and and his supporters seem to just be adept at whining.

 

[Dpad]

I can't speak for others but I bash Obama because he is a lousy president. He has no real leadership ability. If he was a real leader he would have brought sides together instead of whining about how the Republicans are obstructing him. You go on long and loud about what a great job Clinton did but he only had Democratic control of both houses of Congress for the 103 Congress. The 104th, 105th and 106th Congress Clinton had to deal with both houses being controlled by the Republicans. Then let's go to your favorite punching bag Ronald Reagan. He never had the luxury of Republican control of both houses anytime during his tenure. In the 97th, 98th and 99th Congress the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives. In the 100th Congress the Democrats controlled both Houses of Congress. So all the great sins that you consistently bitch about were brought about with the help of the Democratic party. You have done a long list of the evils that GHW Bush was responsible for but he never had the luxury of Republican control either House of Congress anytime during his tenure. He dealt with Democratic control of both Houses his entire time in office. It seems that every president on either side of the aisle except our present one can successfully deal the opposition and push their agenda. President Obama and and his supporters seem to just be adept at whining.

Has here ever been a president who brought both sides together? I'm really asking, not trying to sound like I'm mocking you.

 

[MacNfries]

.... He has no real leadership ability. If he was a real leader he would have brought sides together instead of whining about how the Republicans are obstructing him....

.....So, you're in total denial that key Republicans ... oh darn, lets just give you their names ... Newt Gingrich & Frank Luntz bring together Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, Pete Sessions, Jeb Hensarling, Pete Hoekstra, Dan Lungren, Jim DeMint, Jon Kyl, Tom Coburn, John Ensign, and Bob Corker ... on the EVE of Obama's first inaugeration to conspire HOW to make Obama fail in his effort to revive the economy ... remember, Obama hadn't moved his things into the White House as of that day ... had done NOTHING to the Republicans but humiliate them in the election. But then, look at the whackjob their GOP candidate chose as a running mate ... Sarah "bat ******* crazy" Palin and her cute "lipstick on a pig" quotes. ARE WE IN AGREEMENT thus far, Torp? Its all on record ... but let's continue.

• These conspirators met in the Caucus Room for several hours to plot how to win back the "political power" and how to break the Obama legislative platform.
• Plot #1 { quote from Kevin McCarthy }... "we're going to challenge Obama and the Democrats on every single bill and campaign" {unquote}
• Plot #2: Gingrich said they would discredit members of Obama's team, starting with Charlie Rangel, the House Ways & Means chairman ...
• Plot #3: Go after Treasury Secretary Tim Geither for SS/Medicare taxes while he served at the Int'l Monetary Fund.

As the meeting broke, Gingrich laughed saying "You'll remember this day; the day the seeds of 2012 were sown."

• Plot #4: Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor (wonder why he's no longer around?) laid out their "no honeymoon" plot to resist the new president's US Economic Recovery ... per George Voinovich (r-Ohio) ... later to become known as the "Party of NO" ... sound familiar or is it time to declare your alzheimers?
• Plot #5: John Boehner, on 1-27-09, announced in a weekly conference that the new president would make his first visit to the WH/Capitol at noon to meet with Republicans on his economic-recovery plan. Boehner is quoted as telling them "It's another Run-Of-The-Mill, undisciplined, cumbersome, wasteful Washington spending bill. I hope you will join ME in voting "NO".
• Plot #6: Cantor staff implements a "leak back strategy" to determine which Republicans might break ranks with this sabotage of the government ... Cantor referred to them as Republican "Centrists" and big spending appropriators from Obama friendly districts.

David Axelrod and Robert Gibbs were confidentially made aware of this strategy of the traitor RETHUGS but did not inform the President because he was already on his way to the meetings with Republicans. Vice President Biden was informed by Bob Bennett of Utah and Alex Spector of Pa.

Unfortunate for these ReThug conspirators of Washington, Obama scored some big points ... elimination of Osama bin Laden, the PPACA, and a few other mentionables like the jobs suddenly 'growing" for 47 of the 48 months of his first administration, new credit card regs, Lilly Ledbetter "Fair Pay Act" ... the stock market recovery, Dow Jones climb, ending Iraq War, saving over a million auto industry jobs ... oh I know, but look at the humongous DEBT he gave us, you'll say. Needless to say, Republicans spent 4 years obstructing anything and everything the President wished to do to get the economy going ... they did nothing else ... and FAILED at doing that.

So, I ask YOU, Torpedo ... WHO REFUSED TO WORK WITH WHO, first? Can you ******* yourself to admit it was REPUBLICANS? Or, has selective memory taken full control of you?

Would you like me to kick off the NEW Republican plans to stop Obama during his 2nd term? Or would you prefer denying what I've posted thus far? Lie-Deny-Confuse-Redirect-Scare ... the Republican "Obama" obstruction agenda.

... let's go to your favorite punching bag Ronald Reagan. He never had the luxury of Republican control of both houses anytime during his tenure. In the 97th, 98th and 99th Congress the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives. In the 100th Congress the Democrats controlled both Houses of Congress. So all the great sins that you consistently bitch about were brought about with the help of the Democratic party.

You see, it was President Reagan that STARTED all this polarization of the parties. He's the one that kept vilifying the government by saying "get big government out of the way" crap. He's the one who started the current addiction to deficit spending that popped the first $10 trillion of Nat'l debt on the books before Obama arrived. He's the one that sent Grover Norquist out to obtain signatures from all Republicans to say NO to any tax increases to offset the spending he was doing with his "trickle down" Reaganomics. Yet, you've benefited from Reaganomics, so why should you complain? You've openly admitted that you're a "1%er" and that you haven't mentored anyone along. So, WHO'S the REAL TAKER and WHOS the MAKER? You got YOURS, so screw everyone else, right? Then YOU bitch about the outcome (Nat'l Debt) of the Republican "cut taxes-create new jobs" bullshit. Lie-Deny-Confuse-Redirect-Scare ... today's Republican agenda. It's the ONLY platform they have ... nothing else matters to them.

.... President Obama and and his supporters seem to just be adept at whining.

I think it is Republicans who are crying ... don't you think? They are currently getting EXACTLY what they deserve. I hope they lose the Senate as well ... maybe lose a dozen seats in the House, too. I was reading an article just last week ... the government shutdown that Cruz initiated ... cost the US close to $24 billion of yours and my tax dollars while he read "Green Eggs And Ham", did impersonations of Darth Vader, and talked about the Lit'l Engine That Could. And you conservatives would vote for such individuals? These fuckers are laughing in our faces and getting away with it. Insanity ... "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different results".

 

[Torpedo]

.....So, you're in total denial that key Republicans ... oh darn, lets just give you their names ... Newt Gingrich & Frank Luntz bring together Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, Pete Sessions, Jeb Hensarling, Pete Hoekstra, Dan Lungren, Jim DeMint, Jon Kyl, Tom Coburn, John Ensign, and Bob Corker ... on the EVE of Obama's first inaugeration to conspire HOW to make Obama fail in his effort to revive the economy ... remember, Obama hadn't moved his things into the White House as of that day ... had done NOTHING to the Republicans but humiliate them in the election. But then, look at the whackjob their GOP candidate chose as a running mate ... Sarah "bat ******* crazy" Palin and her cute "lipstick on a pig" quotes. ARE WE IN AGREEMENT thus far, Torp? Its all on record ... but let's continue.

• These conspirators met in the Caucus Room for several hours to plot how to win back the "political power" and how to break the Obama legislative platform.
• Plot #1 { quote from Kevin McCarthy }... "we're going to challenge Obama and the Democrats on every single bill and campaign" {unquote}
• Plot #2: Gingrich said they would discredit members of Obama's team, starting with Charlie Rangel, the House Ways & Means chairman ...
• Plot #3: Go after Treasury Secretary Tim Geither for SS/Medicare taxes while he served at the Int'l Monetary Fund.

As the meeting broke, Gingrich laughed saying "You'll remember this day; the day the seeds of 2012 were sown."

• Plot #4: Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor (wonder why he's no longer around?) laid out their "no honeymoon" plot to resist the new president's US Economic Recovery ... per George Voinovich (r-Ohio) ... later to become known as the "Party of NO" ... sound familiar or is it time to declare your alzheimers?
• Plot #5: John Boehner, on 1-27-09, announced in a weekly conference that the new president would make his first visit to the WH/Capitol at noon to meet with Republicans on his economic-recovery plan. Boehner is quoted as telling them "It's another Run-Of-The-Mill, undisciplined, cumbersome, wasteful Washington spending bill. I hope you will join ME in voting "NO".
• Plot #6: Cantor staff implements a "leak back strategy" to determine which Republicans might break ranks with this sabotage of the government ... Cantor referred to them as Republican "Centrists" and big spending appropriators from Obama friendly districts.

David Axelrod and Robert Gibbs were confidentially made aware of this strategy of the traitor RETHUGS but did not inform the President because he was already on his way to the meetings with Republicans. Vice President Biden was informed by Bob Bennett of Utah and Alex Spector of Pa.

Unfortunate for these ReThug conspirators of Washington, Obama scored some big points ... elimination of Osama bin Laden, the PPACA, and a few other mentionables like the jobs suddenly 'growing" for 47 of the 48 months of his first administration, new credit card regs, Lilly Ledbetter "Fair Pay Act" ... the stock market recovery, Dow Jones climb, ending Iraq War, saving over a million auto industry jobs ... oh I know, but look at the humongous DEBT he gave us, you'll say. Needless to say, Republicans spent 4 years obstructing anything and everything the President wished to do to get the economy going ... they did nothing else ... and FAILED at doing that.

So, I ask YOU, Torpedo ... WHO REFUSED TO WORK WITH WHO, first? Can you ******* yourself to admit it was REPUBLICANS? Or, has selective memory taken full control of you?

Would you like me to kick off the NEW Republican plans to stop Obama during his 2nd term? Or would you prefer denying what I've posted thus far? Lie-Deny-Confuse-Redirect-Scare ... the Republican "Obama" obstruction agenda.


You see, it was President Reagan that STARTED all this polarization of the parties. He's the one that kept vilifying the government by saying "get big government out of the way" crap. He's the one who started the current addiction to deficit spending that popped the first $10 trillion of Nat'l debt on the books before Obama arrived. He's the one that sent Grover Norquist out to obtain signatures from all Republicans to say NO to any tax increases to offset the spending he was doing with his "trickle down" Reaganomics. Yet, you've benefited from Reaganomics, so why should you complain? You've openly admitted that you're a "1%er" and that you haven't mentored anyone along. So, WHO'S the REAL TAKER and WHOS the MAKER? You got YOURS, so screw everyone else, right? Then YOU bitch about the outcome (Nat'l Debt) of the Republican "cut taxes-create new jobs" bullshit. Lie-Deny-Confuse-Redirect-Scare ... today's Republican agenda. It's the ONLY platform they have ... nothing else matters to them.

I think it is Republicans who are crying ... don't you think? They are currently getting EXACTLY what they deserve. I hope they lose the Senate as well ... maybe lose a dozen seats in the House, too. I was reading an article just last week ... the government shutdown that Cruz initiated ... cost the US close to $24 billion of yours and my tax dollars while he read "Green Eggs And Ham", did impersonations of Darth Vader, and talked about the Lit'l Engine That Could. And you conservatives would vote for such individuals? These fuckers are laughing in our faces and getting away with it. Insanity ... "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different results".

You still haven't addressed why every other president since Truman has been more successful at reaching across the aisle than President Obama has.

As to how how the general public is taking all this there seems to be a lot more Democratic defections than Republican. The majority of party defections on both sides of the aisle seem to be going independent.

The polarization in the two major political parties easily goes back to the late 60's and early 70's. I am surprised you haven't blamed Reagan for the Kennedy assassinations. You consistently piss and moan about Reagan and you talk now about he is responsible for the polarization of the parties. He never has Republican control in both houses during his tenure. So how did he polarize the parties and create decisiveness and get the Democrats in Congress to support his agenda. Which way is it Mac? You can't have it both ways

 

[MacNfries]

You still haven't addressed why every other president since Truman has been more successful at reaching across the aisle than President Obama has.

.....Obviously you refuse to understand that it was REPUBLICANS who refused to reach across the isle, Torp. It was THEY who met & plotted to refuse ANYTHING the President wanted to do. Why is your reading so poor, geesh, I even GAVE YOU THE NAMES OF THE Republicans. That's how they got their nickname "The Party of NO" ... what's wrong with your comprehension? Why don't you go BACK UP and read the first 4 bullet points of my last response to YOU. I'd move on to Obama's 2nd term and the Republican conspiracy there, as well, BUT, you seem to have a "state of denial" or simply refuse to admit. Mind you, Torp, this was BEFORE Obama had even taken his FIRST OATH of office.

As to how how the general public is taking all this there seems to be a lot more Democratic defections than Republican. The majority of party defections on both sides of the aisle seem to be going independent.

.....As far as Democrats defecting more than Republicans, it may "seem that way to you" but that's incorrect. And its NOT just defections, its Republicans who have gotten out of politics because of the polarization created by the Tea Party member, mainly. Unfortunately, I haven't the time, right now, to prove your incorrect assumptions.

The polarization in the two major political parties easily goes back to the late 60's and early 70's. I am surprised you haven't blamed Reagan for the Kennedy assassinations. You consistently piss and moan about Reagan and you talk now about he is responsible for the polarization of the parties. He never has Republican control in both houses during his tenure. So how did he polarize the parties and create decisiveness and get the Democrats in Congress to support his agenda. Which way is it Mac? You can't have it both ways

.....Having control of the Congress had NOTHING to do with Reagan vilifying "big government" and claiming that "government is the problem" and "get big government out of the way" quotes. And, yes, he DID indeed send Grover Marquese out to get Republicans to sign an agreement NOT to raise taxes in 1987. His attacks on government really started with his second term. Democrats would not continue agree to his spending without offsetting them ... Reagan used the excuse to "shore up Social Security" with his new taxes on SS, then turned around and offset his spending spree with many of those taxes.
.....As far as my bringing Reagan up in discussions, I'll quit bringing him UP when Republicans change their platform; their last 35 years has concentrated on "tax cuts create new jobs" bull *******; its philosophy has failed the country miserably, created the National Debt, trending of deficit spending, and divison in the wealthy & working class pay.
I'll NEVER quit talking about it until Republicans return to moderate governing principles. Every single GOP candidate has talked about "cutting taxes" AGAIN! Obviously very, very slow learners ... "trickle down does NOT create jobs" enough to offset the loss of revenue ... how many times does that have to be proven?

 

[Torpedo]

I'll NEVER quit talking about it until Republicans return to moderate governing principles. Every single GOP candidate has talked about "cutting taxes" AGAIN! Obviously very, very slow learners ... "trickle down does NOT create jobs" enough to offset the loss of revenue ... how many times does that have to be proven?

The Democratic "trickle up" poverty seems to be working well. Workforce participation is at it's lowest level in several decades. The number of people applying for disability has increased to such a degree that Social Security had to change how they allocate their money to cover disability payments. Democrats aren't such fast learners either. Socialism doesn't work take a look at the USSR. Current nation debt is over 19 trillion, I would like to hear any realistic plan for paying that debt

 

[Torpedo]

....As far as my bringing Reagan up in discussions, I'll quit bringing him UP when Republicans change their platform; their last 35 years has concentrated on "tax cuts create new jobs" bull *******; its philosophy has failed the country miserably, created the National Debt, trending of deficit spending, and divison in the wealthy & working class pay.

Hell I don't mind if you bring Reagan up. You just need to admit that to do the things that you vilify him for he had to have the assistance of the Democratic party.

 

[Torpedo]

Obviously you refuse to understand that it was REPUBLICANS who refused to reach across the isle, Torp. It was THEY who met & plotted to refuse ANYTHING the President wanted to do. Why is your reading so poor, geesh, I even GAVE YOU THE NAMES OF THE Republicans. That's how they got their nickname "The Party of NO" ... what's wrong with your comprehension? Why don't you go BACK UP and read the first 4 bullet points of my last response to YOU. I'd move on to Obama's 2nd term and the Republican conspiracy there, as well, BUT, you seem to have a "state of denial" or simply refuse to admit. Mind you, Torp, this was BEFORE Obama had even taken his FIRST OATH of office.

I don't recall President Obama doing much reaching across the aisle when he was pushing the health care industries health plan. PPACA still seems to have some serious problems and it appears that health care costs are back to their 2 to 3 times the rate of inflation increases.

 

[Torpedo]

.....As far as Democrats defecting more than Republicans, it may "seem that way to you" but that's incorrect. And its NOT just defections, its Republicans who have gotten out of politics because of the polarization created by the Tea Party member, mainly. Unfortunately, I haven't the time, right now, to prove your incorrect assumptions.

Incorrect? I don't think so. Lets take Massachusetts. There were just under 20,000 defections from the Democratic party. About 3,500 joined the Republican side and about 16,300 went independent. There were some defections on the Republican side but the Republicans ended up with a net gain. The thing I find most interesting is that most of the defections on both sides went independent

 

[MacNfries]

.....You're wasting my time and yours, too Torp, as well as b2w ink with your responses. Surely you have something better to do. The record shows what it shows; are you denying that Republicans met privately before Obama even took the oath of office, to plan his downfall? They had no intention of working with the President, only obstruct him and try to make it appear it was his fault. The Party Of NO (a term they estab. for themselves) is falling apart before your very eyes due to their own foolishness and stupidity, and you're too stubborn to admit it. I won't totally enjoy their demise until the 2016 election, however, when Dem's take back the Senate, and possibly the House in 2018 mid's.
.....Republicans need to get their house in order; no one can help them but themselves ... starting by shedding their Reaganomics ideology& radical Teabagger party, and reversing the "Citizens United" decision.
.....As far as PPACA is concern, I'll give you some of your own advice ... quit your whining. Republicans kept kicking that can down the road on purpose, as they had NO intentions of coming up with a health plan. They've done nothing but cut taxes for the wealthy, create wars, and run up the debt since Reagan. Why should YOU complain ... you benefited from "trickle down" and you don't care about anyone but Torp, "Mr. One Percenter", and you certainly don't care about mentoring; buy yourself some fresh "cryin' hankies" and fuss at your conservative party to "go to work and DO THEY JOBS".