Quite true but if a Catholic wishes to get a divorce they can even though the Church does't approve.
Thoughts on the South Carolina conferderate flag taken down today?
- Thread starter Texas sub guy 4 bbc
- Start date
I think people put far to much emphasis on symbolism. Ask yourself this, if the flag in the background with the shooter was the current US flag, would everyone still be screaming to ban it? If it was a flag of Goofy, would people be screaming to ban all images of Goofy? The flag itself means nothing, it only means what each individual wants it to mean.
The only "THING" that is to blame for this incident is the person pulling the trigger. The flag didn't make him do it, the people he associated with didn't make him do it, his parents didn't make him do it and the gun didn't make him do it. He and only he made that choice - with or without that flag. You can argue that that these things miss-guided him, and it is a viable argument - however we choose to allow things to influence our life in a positive or negative way, he obviously chose wrong.
Will banning the flag stop or prevent future incidents?, not at all. Will it stop or prevent racism? nope. "Take no engraven images before me" has a much more broader meaning then don't worship golden cows. It is meant to remind us not to put stock in inanimate objects, as they can not help, hurt, or validate our lives.
So if you really want to "symbolize" and ban everything that has any association to Black Slavery, here is a list to get you started.
Chains
Shackles
Bull whips
Ships
Auctions
Plantation Houses
Cotton
Black people
White People
Nets
Human Cages
Africa
Jamaica
The United States
Just to name a few
The only "THING" that is to blame for this incident is the person pulling the trigger. The flag didn't make him do it, the people he associated with didn't make him do it, his parents didn't make him do it and the gun didn't make him do it. He and only he made that choice - with or without that flag. You can argue that that these things miss-guided him, and it is a viable argument - however we choose to allow things to influence our life in a positive or negative way, he obviously chose wrong.
Will banning the flag stop or prevent future incidents?, not at all. Will it stop or prevent racism? nope. "Take no engraven images before me" has a much more broader meaning then don't worship golden cows. It is meant to remind us not to put stock in inanimate objects, as they can not help, hurt, or validate our lives.
So if you really want to "symbolize" and ban everything that has any association to Black Slavery, here is a list to get you started.
Chains
Shackles
Bull whips
Ships
Auctions
Plantation Houses
Cotton
Black people
White People
Nets
Human Cages
Africa
Jamaica
The United States
Just to name a few
or the crack in someone's ass. There are a lot of things I find more offensive than the Confederate flag
My two cents…
Flags are symbolic… Our national anthem is about a flag roughly similar to the stars and stripes we see today… It evokes a multitude of emotions and responses both here and abroad…
Short story time…
I spent 6 weeks studying Spanish in Bolivia around July/August 2007. I loved the experience, had an awesome time, and returned home with "un pequito mas Espaniol" than when I went.
I knew they liked the American people, but loathed us as a nation. No where did this impress itself more on me than when I was walking through a cathedral square on a Saturday afternoon, I stumbled upon a very very large demonstration. I noticed an effigy of George Bush (thought to myself, "no biggie") and than I saw an American flag which was prepared to be burned (though to myself "un oh I'm probably the only gringo walking through the crowd here"). I didn't inherently fear for my safety, I did want to exit myself from the situation pretty quickly as I didn't want to be associated with such an event. As I was leaving the petrol came out and the burnings began.
For myself this situation elicited some deep thoughts… I wanted to be irritated/upset/angry about what I saw. I wanted to become fiercely possessive of a symbol. But I just couldn't. The people gathered in a different country were demonstrating and showing their displeasure with a presidency and policies which in some ways really did hurt their economy. They were also operating under some misapprehensions from their own Bolivian government. Did the people there "hate America"? No, they were however, upset with a person and policies.
End of my digression...
The Confederate battle flag is a part of our national historical narrative. Like it or not, the country that divided against itself is still here with people and places that are very much still here. Battlegrounds are visited and descendants are interviewed. Also, like it or not some people associated with the war, like Robert E. Lee, were not just racist hicks, he was a refined cultured military genius. Heck, Ulysses S. Grant was a ******* and likely held some views that are pretty foreign to us.
Last illustration…
Ancient Greece asked Socrates to ******* the hemlock as he was accused of and found guilty of he "corrupting the youth". In a nutshell ancient Greece had little tolerance for homosexuality, which by the way was pretty rampant. We don't go boycotting Greece because at one time they had some fairly intolerant views.
The Romans enjoyed dispatching Christians for awhile, Christians don't go boycotting Rome because the Italians treasure the colosseum as a historical monument, where much ******* was shed.
If we allow people to use items as a symbol of hate and then we try to get rid of or destroy the symbol, then those who hate have won. We've allowed them to take ownership of something that is rightfully not solely theirs.
Does a battle flag belong on public buildings? No. There is really no need to hoist a battle flag when we're not in a battle and we DON'T use battle flags anymore. Should people be allowed to purchase them and own them, sure! I am sure that like Nazi memorabilia there is plenty of Confederate stuff out there. If you've got a bar, more power to you if you want to display a battle flag, though it might make you unpopular, if people want to go for good beer it doesn't make them racists or supporters of anything, but good beer and wings.
Sorry for the diatribe...
Flags are symbolic… Our national anthem is about a flag roughly similar to the stars and stripes we see today… It evokes a multitude of emotions and responses both here and abroad…
Short story time…
I spent 6 weeks studying Spanish in Bolivia around July/August 2007. I loved the experience, had an awesome time, and returned home with "un pequito mas Espaniol" than when I went.
I knew they liked the American people, but loathed us as a nation. No where did this impress itself more on me than when I was walking through a cathedral square on a Saturday afternoon, I stumbled upon a very very large demonstration. I noticed an effigy of George Bush (thought to myself, "no biggie") and than I saw an American flag which was prepared to be burned (though to myself "un oh I'm probably the only gringo walking through the crowd here"). I didn't inherently fear for my safety, I did want to exit myself from the situation pretty quickly as I didn't want to be associated with such an event. As I was leaving the petrol came out and the burnings began.
For myself this situation elicited some deep thoughts… I wanted to be irritated/upset/angry about what I saw. I wanted to become fiercely possessive of a symbol. But I just couldn't. The people gathered in a different country were demonstrating and showing their displeasure with a presidency and policies which in some ways really did hurt their economy. They were also operating under some misapprehensions from their own Bolivian government. Did the people there "hate America"? No, they were however, upset with a person and policies.
End of my digression...
The Confederate battle flag is a part of our national historical narrative. Like it or not, the country that divided against itself is still here with people and places that are very much still here. Battlegrounds are visited and descendants are interviewed. Also, like it or not some people associated with the war, like Robert E. Lee, were not just racist hicks, he was a refined cultured military genius. Heck, Ulysses S. Grant was a ******* and likely held some views that are pretty foreign to us.
Last illustration…
Ancient Greece asked Socrates to ******* the hemlock as he was accused of and found guilty of he "corrupting the youth". In a nutshell ancient Greece had little tolerance for homosexuality, which by the way was pretty rampant. We don't go boycotting Greece because at one time they had some fairly intolerant views.
The Romans enjoyed dispatching Christians for awhile, Christians don't go boycotting Rome because the Italians treasure the colosseum as a historical monument, where much ******* was shed.
If we allow people to use items as a symbol of hate and then we try to get rid of or destroy the symbol, then those who hate have won. We've allowed them to take ownership of something that is rightfully not solely theirs.
Does a battle flag belong on public buildings? No. There is really no need to hoist a battle flag when we're not in a battle and we DON'T use battle flags anymore. Should people be allowed to purchase them and own them, sure! I am sure that like Nazi memorabilia there is plenty of Confederate stuff out there. If you've got a bar, more power to you if you want to display a battle flag, though it might make you unpopular, if people want to go for good beer it doesn't make them racists or supporters of anything, but good beer and wings.
Sorry for the diatribe...
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Nice post. You should never apologize for being honest.
WhiteGuyintoThis
Male
Gay flags offend me. Take it down.
The fact that you don't like something shouldn't be a reason a change needs to be made by everyone.
M
MikeD
Guest
if gay flags were the symbol of treason and racism and were hanging on government grounds, sure. Otherwise, museums, pvt display and ownership is your choice and fine with me. Just lets me know without you uttering a word that you're a racist asshole.
there was no racism in CSA.
many blacks were not slaves, some of them owned slaves, many other joined confederate army
so before writing lies take a look on an american history book
M
MikeD
Guest
I will when you learn English. No racism in the South? HAHAHAHAHA!
M
MikeD
Guest
you keep reading southern accounts of slavery in the U.S. You'll always be a misguided soul. Now pardon me while I take a ******* and wipe my Yankee ass with a Confederate flag.
Kevin83165
Male
The South wanted independance from a Big Brother all powerful, all consuming, Federal Yankee government, but now the people in the South are so brainwashed, they don't even realize what it was all about and most others are too stupid to figure out what it REALLY means. Instead, they believe what they hear!
Kevin83165
Male
There you go.....Amazon has a book about it! The whites in the CSA weren't against blacks...they were against WHITES in the USA!! ( who were trying to oppress them...of course they won the war.....so they wrote the history....) but actually the North didn't win....it's just the South didn't lose....they just walked away! Lee surrendered HIS soldiers at Appomatox, but he didn't have the authority to surrender for the entire CSA army...they just walked off the job after he surrendered. So....technically the South AS A WHOLE never surrendered! ( Just Virginia under Gen. Lee)
You should visit sometime
As someone who was born and raised in the south. The south still and will always have racial problems.Im black so motherfuck the confederate flag.My ultimate plan is to go back in time sort of like a reverse Philadelphia Experiment and cause some havoc on Lee , his army and a host of others.And before any uncle tom or KKKonservative has something to say.Im not getting over ******* and Im entitled to my own thought,belief or opinion.Im still here and IM STILL NOT AN UNCLE TOM.
White women forever,
Soulpole
You do know that the northern states had slaves to right? You also know that Lee never bought slaves right? You do know that Grand owned and bought slaves right? You do know that slavery did not end with the civil war right? You do know that grant and two northern states Kentucky and Delaware did not free there slaves until some 8 months after the civil war ended and the 13th amendment ****** them to free there slaves right? You do know that states flying the American flag held slaves longer than the States flying the confederate Flag right? I am just making sure you know all these things, I am sure you do. If you do not know this stuff I suggest you try studying up on your history.
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