Your thoughts please?
Thoughts on the South Carolina conferderate flag taken down today?
- Thread starter Texas sub guy 4 bbc
- Start date
M
MikeD
Guest
Nothing to think about. Take the damn thing down in every state and change flag designs for the one or two that have it as part of their state flag. You don't see the swastika flying in Germany, do you? And if you wear it in my store then I have every right to refuse you service as it offends my beliefs against hate.
One hundred and fifty years ago that flag meant something totally different from what it has become to mean today. Interesting enough, several of the southern states didn't incorporate the Stars & Bars into their state flags until the 1950s & 1960s ... clearly to state their positions on segregation/integration. I believe many of the southerners who fought under the confederate flag would be ashamed of what it has come to symbolize. They should take them down, and place them in the museums along with the fools who still find them noble to fly. Its time to move on.
I don't know about US, but we in Europe have one starry flag we want to take down and bury. Without success yet.
Why confederate flag is so controversial, do southern states want independence?
Why confederate flag is so controversial, do southern states want independence?
It's just a symbol, changing attitudes is a lot more important. It seems to me that the people that brainwashed the young man that did the church shooting which started this whole controversy should be prosecuted under the RICO statutes. If what they are doing isn't an ongoing criminal enterprise I don't know what is.
The banning of the Confederate flag is just knee jerk politics. Decent law abiding people were at church and they get gunned down by a misguided, impressionable young man. Instead of doing something with substance to prevent a re occurrence they ban the Confederate flag which will do little more than polarize the citizens in the south. Nothing is being done to counter attack the people that are putting up the trash website that motivated this misguided young man to commit the horrendous acts he did.
I don't have a problem with the Confederate battle flag coming down from the Capitol Dome in Charleston, what I do have a problem with is the banning of the Confederate battle flag from places where it is historically appropriate, like at Fort Sumter, Vicksburg, and Confederate cemeteries and memorials. If "being offended" is going to be the standard going forward for the removal of the Confederate flag or any symbol that anybody deems offensive, what happens to the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond? And what happens when people start complaining that the American flag is offensive?
The swastika doesn't fly in Germany because it is illegal to do so, it isn't illegal to fly the Confederate flag in the United States.
But I did want to ask you a question based on the last thing you said- does a merchant have the right to refuse service to gays based on their beliefs?
About time. Prominence of the confederate flag was raised as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement of the 1950's.....and that's bullsh*t. Integrate, intermix and get on with it.
Well if the truth was to be known. The States flying the American flag held slaves for a longer period of time , than the states that flew the Confederate Flag. The civil war did not end slavery. There was two northern states Kentucky and Delaware that held slaves for another 8 months , Until the 13th amendment freed all slaves. The northern general and future president of the united states did not free his slaves until then either. If we want something or someone to hate. I say we should focus our attention on those that hijacked the flag and used it in ways it was never meant to be used. Those people being the KKK and other white supremacist groups. Lots of good men died fighting under both flags and we are letting a few dumb ass supremacist take away our heritage.
Please expand on your view
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MikeD
Guest
Only if they also refuse it for adulterers, divorcees, spousal abusers, liars, coveters, people wearing poly-cotton blends, etc. If you take your book of Bronze Age fairytales that literally then take it literally across the board. Don't pick and choose based on the "ick" factor.
I think the Federal Government has stuck it's fingers in a lot of places it doesn't belong. The First Amendment is supposed to guarantee freedom of religion among other things. But Catholics are ****** accept divorce, some Pentecostals that see handling venous snakes as a sign of faith are forbidden to do so, many churches don't believe that marriage between two people of the same sex is acceptable, Muslims are forbidden to have more than one wife.
I wouldn't want to do do any of the above. However if any of these things are a part of the beliefs of someone else they should be free to practice those beliefs without interference from the government.
Catholics aren't ****** to accept divorce because the Church doesn't recognize them. The Church grants anulments, but those are few and far between, and you have to jump through all kinds if hoops to get one. A Catholic who gets a divorce is barred from the sacraments.
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MikeD
Guest
Not as hard as it used to be. mom and one sister got them granted. My mom's was a lot more difficult back in the 70s. Divorced in the 60s. My sister got hers granted pdq in the 80s.
So the family that practices a religion that prays for healing of their cancer stricken baby bcuz modern medicine is forbidden should be allowed to endanger that baby's life? Uh no. Religion should not trample someone's right to life, liberty, happiness.
@Torpedo
In terms of the First Amendment and Federal interference, this decision was an
important victory for religious freedom.
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-file...vangelical-lutheran-church-and-school-v-eeoc/
In terms of the First Amendment and Federal interference, this decision was an
important victory for religious freedom.
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-file...vangelical-lutheran-church-and-school-v-eeoc/
Normally, I try not to participate in political discourse, but I have two questions.
1.) When did the loser of a war/battle get to display their banner in the place where they lost?
2.) Why do we refer to the Confederate Battle Flag as the Confederate Flag? Yet nobody displays the Flag of the Confederacy.
I get the freedom of speech thing and have no problem with Billy Bob or anyone else displaying the flag. But if you're a state government, accepting funds from fed, how do you justify taking those funds and still displaying the flag of the enemy that lost to the federal government?
Just my opinion and two cents worth
1.) When did the loser of a war/battle get to display their banner in the place where they lost?
2.) Why do we refer to the Confederate Battle Flag as the Confederate Flag? Yet nobody displays the Flag of the Confederacy.
I get the freedom of speech thing and have no problem with Billy Bob or anyone else displaying the flag. But if you're a state government, accepting funds from fed, how do you justify taking those funds and still displaying the flag of the enemy that lost to the federal government?
Just my opinion and two cents worth
Good ruling. However the 4 items I mentioned in my post concerning the Pentecostals, the Catholic Church, Islam, and gay marriage still seem to have a significant conflict with the state.
You bring up an interesting point. At what point does society have the right or the obligation to involve itself in a person's life?
This weekend there has been a few articles about a family that had their children removed from their home because of suspected abuse of the youngest. It turns out that the baby suffered from a series of medical conditions that outwardly appeared to be abuse but were not. The parents are now hoping that since they have proven themselves innocent that they can get their children back. Even though the parents innocence has been determined there is no requirement that the children be returned.The parents admittedly lived a bit of an alternative lifestyle but there was no evidence that the children were neglected or abused.
An acquaintance of mine lost a baby due to SIDS (sudden ******* death syndrome)several years ago. In Wisconsin these are treated as homicides until proven otherwise. So a couple that had suffered about the worst tragedy parents can suffer were within about three hours of discovery of their babies lifeless body in separate interrogation rooms being grilled about their baby's death. Both were told it was clear the baby had been murdered and one or both was responsible. When the official cause of death was declared to be SIDS all the authorities said was "We were just doing our jobs"
In both cases the victims of the system have no real recourse because the perpetrators of the error are protected.
There in lies the slippery slope. How many innocents do you save, and how many innocents do you torment?
I think because most people only know of one flag that was ever used by the Confederacy, and ironically, it was never the official flag of the Confederacy. The square version was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (Lee's Army) while the rectangular version was the naval flag.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
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